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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20648
[Civil]
Date Posted:
5/15/2009
3:22:15 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 3,063
RSS: 13,579
Comments: 9
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Mount Hope Church Sues Gay Rights Group Over Protest
Author: Kathleen Lavey Source: Lansing State Journal (MI)
Title: MOUNT HOPE CHURCH SUES GAY RIGHTS GROUP
Mount Hope Church has filed a federal lawsuit against a group of protesters who disrupted a Sunday morning service Nov. 9 with shouts, same-sex kissing, fliers and a banner that proclaimed: "It's okay to be gay."
The lawsuit was filed Wednesday morning and assigned to Judge Robert Holmes Bell in U.S. District Court in Grand Rapids.
Church staff directed questions to the Alliance Defense Fund, an Arizona-based nonprofit that filed the suit on the Delta Township church's behalf.
"They don't have the right to come in and terrorize the congregation," said Kevin Theriot, senior counsel for the Alliance Defense Fund.
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Community Thoughts: There are 9 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Disheartened!! | May 18th. at 12:06:53 pm EDT
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Oakwind (The Army, Maryland) - Email Me
I see no difference between this group (Bash Back!) and the extremists in the church that they were protesting! And now I see several people actually condoning this! These are the same tactics that we in the Pagan community get from those same religious jerks at all the time. And while I can vaguely agree that it’s nice to see the religious jerks get a little of their own, there is nothing that can justify this. I hate it when it is done to us, and my principles will not allow me to support anyone else who does it – for whatever reason! (And I absolutely support GLBT rights.)
They do not have the right to do this any more than any other group of extremist jerks… In case we forget: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” I see no government entity here that they are trying to get a redress of grievances from… I see nothing that says you have to agree with the speech being made… Nor do I see this as a “peaceable” assembly! Not by a long shot! Since when is it required that force be used in order to become “non-peaceable?” Disrupting another peaceable assembly (i.e. the people in the church,) CERTAINLY qualifies as non-peaceable! There is a difference between “peaceable” and “peaceful.” There ARE rules to this sort of thing. (Granted, the religious jerks violate them whenever they see fit, and if it's wrong for them, its wrong for all.)
Protesting the church – yes! Carrying signs – yes! Gathering in a public area where you can be seen and heard – yes! Lewd and lascivious behaviour in public – no! Disrupting another group’s religious service – no! Restricting the comings and goings of others – no!
We complain about the “moderates” in the Christian communities “looking the other way,” when their problem children do this crap… We complain about other groups supporting others that do this crap… We complain when other groups do this crap to US… Supporting or condoning this makes us no different...
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| What Are People Thinking These Days | May 18th. at 12:15:04 am EDT
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Irishman82 (Southfield, Michigan) - Email Me
I know that I may be alone in this as I seem to be in most situations but what is going on today? we have people like these "Bash Back" protestors that all they have done is throw more fuel on the fire for people that already either A) dislike them for no good reason or B) now thwy have changed some people that would rather say "live and let Live" to people that dislike homosexuals based on this experience.
that being said (and I know that this will ruffle some feathers) it all seems to tie into the fact that we as american people have forgoten due to groups like the ACLU and others like them that feel that for one group that may be a minority to thrive that the group in the majority must be put into check by stepping on their rights. Now I am a pagan and I want to prctice my belifes freely just like anyone else however I dont want some group saying that they are working for my rights to come in and tell the people in my city hall that they can not have a nativity scene during the holidays. if I have a problem with it then I can bring it to the city concile and we can work it out ourselves either through POLITE discourse or through compromise.
My point in all of this is that just as I see several bumper stickers that say "Freedom of religion means ANY religion"
so does Freedom of speech means ALL speech
just because you may have a different opinion than someone else doesn't mean that you have to hate eachother or try and tear the other person down. In fact what we need to be doing is going by the old saying "I may disagree with what you are saying but I will defend your right to say it" or eventually there will be a day that your opinions may be thought of as hate speech. I just hope that all these people on the right and on the left try to remember that before we lose our right to speak up when we do have an opinion that may be a little controversial.
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| PC Fascism Is Alive And Well | May 17th. at 6:18:20 pm EDT
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WitchPoet (Claremont, California) - Email Me - Web
Here we go again. A group that is "for the oppressed" and supports the "downtrodden" by urinating all over the rights of those they see as having "lost the right to free speech by being jerks".
You are ether in favor of free speech and freedom of religion or you are NOT. If you are not then you are not one of the "good guys" no matter haw many trees you hug or how many gays and minorities you hire in preference to others who you assume to have been more "priviledged" by the color of their skin or the sex they like.
These fools are indeed the "Phelps family of the Left" and any who thinks what THEY do is cool is just as twisted as ANY PayRich-oner of this silly church.
These people need to GROW UP! There is no number of "Humanitarian Brownie Points" that you can earn that gives you the right to oppress others YOU deem "undesirable".
If people can't understand this concept they are not a freedom lovers, they just take protective coloring while they stalk the herd.
Find More info -- HERE
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| Ug... | May 16th. at 11:09:53 pm EDT
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NightLad (Toronto, Ontario) - Email Me
Bash Back! does not represent the GLBT community any more than Fred Phelps represents the Christian Community.
IMO: two wrongs don't make a right.
I find it absolutely frustrating to know that these "Bash Back!" people have given the homophobic right-wing yet more fodder to push for anti-gay legislation. Even people who may have been on the fence about GLBT equality will look at this and draw negative conclusions against all GLBT people.
I'm not Christian; I don't care what they do in their Church. Let them preach hate until their throats bleed for all I care. The only place I'd protest is City Hall or a similar Civil, Secular Government location.
Uh... my head hurts.
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| Wish I'd Been There... | May 16th. at 11:18:29 am EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
While this sort of tactic is in itself christian in nature-as they made few bones about stepping in to try to break up the worship and rituals of those they hoped to control, so it's nice to see that they don't like it any better,
still, that would have been interesting to see.
I hope they can win this argument.
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| Witness | May 16th. at 9:42:33 am EDT
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MoonLadyBria (Lansing, Michigan) - Email Me
I actually saw the protestors outside of the church on the day of the protest. The article is a pretty accurate description of what happened. The protest may have gone too far. However, Mount Hope is a huge power here in Lansing. The church has a huge complex that is like a village inside. They have thousands of members and huge financial clout. This will definitely be a "David and Goliath" battle for Bash Back!. Most Mount Hope churchgoers are homophobic and maybe they need someone to show them what, "Love thy neighbor" means.
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| Christian Fundies "Persecuted" | May 15th. at 11:17:13 pm EDT
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nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me
Kevin Theriot, senior counsel for the Alliance Defense Fund said "There's a federal law that says you can't disrupt, by force or threat of force, a church service". This is the basis of the charge being leveled at the protesters.
But this is what they did, according to the police reports (as reported in the news article) : "about 10 protesters outside of the church were dressed in black with their faces covered by bandannas. They conducted a loud and "wildly offensive" demonstration and waved an upside-down cross and signs with satanic symbols and messages while shouting through a bullhorn."
Nothing at all said about them using force, or even a threat of force. Just a loud and "wildly offensive" demonstration.
Oh, and the protest held inside the church? I imagine it was designed to illustrate the fact that there are same-sex couples everywhere -- and the only way you will ever know who the "gays" are is when they let you know.
"When the church's security guards went to deal with the outside protesters, another set of protesters inside the church - dressed in their Sunday best to blend in with the crowd of about 700 worshippers - went into action. They threw about 1,000 fliers around the church, unfurled the banner, kissed, and pulled fire alarms on their way out of the building."
Again, no mention of force, or a threat of force, being used. And "blocking the driveway" -- when did placing yourself in front of a vehicle, just standing in one place, become "use of force, or threat of force"? There is nothing in the article which shows the protesters actually used force...or even a threat of force.
The tactics used by the protesters are the same tactics used by Christina Fundamentalist groups every day -- and those Fundie groups get away with it. I say CASE DISMISSED.
--nasionnaich
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| Ministry? | May 15th. at 11:00:48 pm EDT
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Ahr-Ohn (Bridgeport, Connecticut) - Email Me
"We at Sheepdog Ministries (a Christian Ministry dedicated to training church security teams) recognize that people have a right to voice their opinions, but not at the expense of disrupting the rights of others."
I'm going to have my security trained by Kali Ma, personally, she happens to live in this town.
Pulling False Alarms, is that a felony, or just an ordinance? Trespassing is a felony, and more than three proved to be trespassers, makes it triple damages, whatever they collect for their defense fund, imagine that going forward triple.
Where did these guys attend a school of social reform? It sounds like they're working for somebody who doesn't like them very much.
Arawn Graalrd
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| Oh Dear | May 15th. at 9:30:34 pm EDT
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Faloku (Arcata, California) - Email Me
If the charges are true, these protesters did not comport themselves well at all. It's one thing to counter-protest protesters who are protesting your right to get married like everybody else, but it's quite another to disrupt what is essentially a private group meeting where the speaker is making his case that being homosexual is a bad idea.
Bad form, old chaps, bad form.
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