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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20661
[Civil]
Date Posted:
5/18/2009
4:32:20 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 2,647
RSS: 9,127
Comments: 12
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Minn. Teen Must See Cancer Doctor, Court Rules
Author: The Associated Press Source: First Amendment Center Online
Title: MINN. TEEN MUST SEE CANCER DOCTOR, COURT RULES
A Minnesota couple who refused chemotherapy for their 13-year-old son on religious grounds were ordered last week to have the boy re-evaluated to see if he would still benefit from the cancer treatment — or if it may already be too late.
Brown County District Judge John Rodenberg on May 15 found Daniel Hauser had been “medically neglected” by his parents, Colleen and Anthony Hauser, who belong to a religious group that believes in using only natural healing methods practiced by some American Indians.
The judge allowed Daniel to stay with his parents, noting they love him and acted in good faith. But he gave them until tomorrow to get an updated chest X-ray and select an oncologist.
Rodenberg wrote that state statutes require parents to provide necessary medical care for a child. The statutes say alternative and complementary health-care methods are not enough.
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Community Thoughts: There are 12 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| As A Parent... | May 20th. at 11:43:41 pm EDT
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Celtic Lullaby (Jefferson, Maryland) - Email Me
I love my children so much...I can not imagine giving up and not providing every possible treatment to save one of their lives.
'Letting go and letting god' only goes so far. My mother prayed over my brother and I more often than I could count when we were children, but she took us to the doctor too. She made sure we had the meds, that we took them and that we did everything else to get well. She is a good mother and she looked out for us.
This boy's mother thinks she is doing the right thing, but ultimately she will kill her child if she is not stopped. If she were pointing a gun at his head or standing over him with a syringe full of poison I would sincerely hope that someone would step in and stop her. Instead, she is failing to provide treatment that was successful in shrinking his tumor until they decided to pray it away. What she's doing is neglect, and it's just as deadly as the gun or poison.
We do not have the right to do whatever we wish with our children. We do not have the right to abuse or neglect them, and we surely don't have the right to engage in behavior that threatens their lives.
I pray that this woman either wises up and takes him back in for treatment or someone intervenes on her son's behalf. The type of cancer he has can be successfully treated. It would be a shame and a waste to allow him to die from it.
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| This Is Kiind Of Long, But... | May 20th. at 5:34:17 pm EDT
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Oakwind (The Army, Maryland) - Email Me
This is about RESPONSIBILITIES not RIGHTS. People have the right to refuse medical treatment for themselves and those that they are responsible for. And people have the right to practice and believe and say whatever they want! Furthermore, they have the right to be free from harassment and discrimination because of their beliefs and practices… And if you don’t like it, then maybe you should form your own dictatorship where you can make your citizens do whatever YOU want and treat them YOUR way!
However, as with any other RIGHT, comes the RESPONSIBILITY for exercising that right! We are a nation of laws (which derive from the people and the (hopefully) impartial system of judges that interpret the laws and the Constitution of the United States) and our current laws are such that if you are responsible for someone’s life and allow them to die when a viable means to allow them to live exists, that’s negligent homicide. If you refuse treatment for yourself and die, it’s suicide (which is still illegal, if I remember my laws correctly.) We cannot hold them responsible because they are dead. If people refuse treatment and someone else dies, they need to be held responsible for that! The fact that someone is going to die anyway MAY or MAY NOT justify it – but that is something for a JURY to decide! If a jury decides that they were justified in letting their child die, then so be it. At least then, SOCIETY has said that they were justified (and not the government or some other expert with her own opinion,) and maybe the law needs to change. And if they convict, then maybe it’s not the law that needs to change! The only thing necessary here is to determine the competence of the responsible party. If they are not competent, then the court makes the decisions because at that point, the court IS more competent (in this way every citizen gets at least a MINIMUM level of competence in the decisions that are made for them. If they are competent, then they need to be advised that they can no longer plead diminished capacity or anything else when they stand in front of the jury. We have a system for this, and while it isn’t the greatest, it certainly is better than nothing.
The hardest part for me to digest is that they are praying for their son’s recover and yet fail to realize that their prayers might be being answered – by medical treatment! But, I respect their rights. Too bad they don’t take their responsibility a little more seriously.
And in all honesty though, if some group wants to refuse medical treatment and do nothing but pray for their sick and dying, then I say let them. Eventually, one of two things is going to happen – (1) they’ll either get tired of being arrested and going to court (with or without being convicted) and change, or (2) natural selection will weed them out altogether. Either way, we make a move toward a more intelligent gene pool.
And for the record:
(1) Patrick Henry wrote and delivered the SPEECH in which he used the line “Give me liberty, or give me Death” to the Virginia Convention, March 23, 1775. The words never appeared in any print until “Life and Character of Patrick Henry” was written by William Wirt in 1816, 17 years AFTER Patrick Henry’s death, and 9 years after Thomas Paine’s! Thomas Paine was the pamphleteer and never used Henry’s line.
(2) Modern psychology and biology BOTH (I have degrees in both, do you?) agree that children do not develop the necessary cognizance skills until around the age of 16! And these are just “sufficient” skills, not adequate for survival in today’s society. Most of those studies indicate an age between 18 and 19 to develop adequate skills! And many of the studies try to set this age higher. Biology has shown that the physical growth and maturation aspects of the human brain begin tapering off at about the age of 13 to 14, but continue well into the mid-20’s. There are exceptions (think bell curve and you get the idea,) but they are few. There are no studies that have been accepted by the APA (due to faulty research methodology or frauds perpetrated by agencies supporting pedophiles, not bias) that show anything different. The studies and links to them are all available on the APA website. (The obvious paranoia and belief in government and big-business conspiracy theories not withstanding.)
(3) I agree that there are all kinds of treatments that have been ignored or purposely neglected by the American Medical Association and doctors in general, but this is because they are medical practitioners, not herbalists! The doctor I go to (in the Army 22 years by the way,) is a medical doctor AND certified homeopath and I CHOSE him specifically for this reason. In addition, it is not too hard to learn about many homeopathic treatments yourself… (Again, conspiracy theory not withstanding.)
In case you missed all that, I agree that the parents have the right to kill their child, (just like I have the right to shoot someone in the head,) but should be ready to face the consequences when they do. (Just like I would if I shot someone in the head...)
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| Medicine Is Not An Absolute | May 20th. at 8:01:31 am EDT
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NeoWayland (Flagstaff, Arizona) - Email Me - Web
And the doctors don't always know what they are doing.
It's not a question of if the doctors know best or not.
My grandmother was in severe pain for the last thirty years of her life. The only way she could legally get enough pain medication was after she was declared a terminal patient.
We think my stepfather suffered from dementia for at least a decade before they diagnosed it. Even then, it took almost eight years to get the right combination of medications.
Today it's not unusual in some school districts for school nurses or a school counselor to "suggest" Ritalin for behavioral problems. All with a doctor's approval of course. And if you are lucky, that "approval" means five minutes reviewing a record. Sometimes, the parents are told. Sometimes they're not.
I'm not a parent. But once you start taking away the parent's responsibility, where does it stop? Do you need to get medical approval to give an aspirin? Does the toothpaste need to be certified by the dentist? Does watching violent cartoons require authorization from the local Department of Mental Hygiene?
That doesn't even deal with things like morality. Should children be raised with religion? Which one? Or which six? I'm all for teaching kids environmentalism, but the environmentalism movement has been hijacked by the global warming crowd, and I don't think kids should be taught that.
Should preteens wear makeup? How much? Does that need to be prescribed too?
What clothes should the children wear?
Should children be taught about guns?
Even if we just stick with medicine and medical issues, there's a whole minefield. What if the child is gay or transgendered? Should exercise be a requirement? What about body issues?
I am not going to say it's a parent's right to control their children because I believe children are a responsibility.
But I sure as blazes don't trust government or assorted experts to define that responsibility.
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| If My Children Were Dying From A Potentially | May 20th. at 1:49:16 am EDT
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Jenna (Cary, North Carolina) - Email Me
treatable illness and I were too dim witted or brainwashed to allow them to be treated any rational person would be well within the bounds of sanity to take control of their treatement from me. You have the right, as an adult, to choose your medical treatement. If you want to be an idiot and refuse the advances which have been made with blood, sweat, toil, and tears then be that upon thy head. However, you do not have the right to deny your child the best chance at life as humanly possible, and if your child is underage he/she is not mature enough or capable to make such a decision, especially if he/she has had a wackjob nutter for a parent.
As for doctors paying God, I will gladly fall at their feet. Doctors have saved my life more than once, and when they literally brought my son back to life when he was born purple and was not breathing. Doctors have cured many diseases which once killed millions, have added decades to our lifespans, and have taken life which was once a misery simply to be endured in hopes of a heaven into a time which, with proper care, can be a period of great enjoyment and experience.They are the closest beings to gods that we have on this planet and I salute them.
While I have no doubt that the boy's parents love him more than the government, they are brainwashed by their faith and clearly in this case care more about his theorical soul than the child's welbeing. The Bible also says that parents are to stone to death disobedient children, but I doubt many of us would allow our Christian neighbour to kill his child in the name of religion. Battlelines must be drawn in the name of commonsense, and when a child's life is being sacrificed in the name of his parents religion, all of us who choose to be rational must stand and fight against the dark forces of insanity and superstition.
As for "people acting as if this life is all that there is", well, I haven't seen any proof that it's not. In fact, everything that I have read, studied, and examined would point to this life, the only existence of which we can be certain, as being our one and only trip about the universe. But even if it's not, doesn't this child deserve every opportunity to experience the joys and wonders of this life? I could understand if this were an elderly person who had lived a rich and full life and simply wished to fade out, but this is a 13 year old for God's sake! My son is only a bit younger than that and he believes that life is like a video game. Kids this young haven't even begun to live. If you are a loving parent or have young children in your life you will understand why I am so adament about this. No parent should be allowed to kill his child, especially not be brainwashing the child into believing that the parent's warped beliefs are his own. Shalom.
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| Is Dying The End Of The World? | May 20th. at 1:04:02 am EDT
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Hadriana (Rome, Georgia) - Email Me
A lot of this has to do with faith.
I have faith that the parents will miss the child more than the govt. will, and that the child will miss his good health should he have or have not the chemo. Therefore, the govt would not be out of bounds ot educate the likely consequences of a decision based wholly on faith, be it faith in Western medicine or faith in naturalpathy, but parents and the patient should be the highest authority in the decision.
JMO. For so many to confess faith, you'd think dying was the be all, end all. When my time comes, I hope the govt. doesn't keep me for it.
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| Rights - And Responsibility | May 19th. at 11:13:13 pm EDT
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nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me
From one the previous comments: "I am disgusted with the trampling of rights in this country...."
Here's the deal. With "rights" comes RESPONSIBILITY.
Ask the next person you meet on the street if they have the right to a jury trial if they are ever charged with a crime, and I guarantee they will say "Yes". Yet nearly every one of those people will likely try to worm their way out of the responsibility to serve on a jury when called to do so.
That's right -- the RESPONSIBILITY.
The boy's parents have the right to live as they choose, believe as they choose -- hell, even treat their childrens' illnesses as they choose. But that right ends where their RESPONSIBILITY to do what it takes to protect their childrens' lives begins.
Same with the kid. He has the RESPONSIBILITY to do what is needed to live, so his parents won't have to bury him, and so his siblings won't have to see him in a coffin.
Using "rights" as a crutch is just freaking selfish. As of now, the mother is guilty of being so damned selfish she's placed her son's life in extreme danger -- she took off with her son to who knows where instead of showing up at court.
Selfishness, all in the name of "rights" and "religious freedom". Unless y'all would argue that generic "religious freedom" and "personal rights" allow folks to do whatever the hell they want to do, whether someone else dies or not.
Hey, I have the "right" to holler FIRE in a crowded theater...or even, when she is too far gone to make her own decisions, refuse to let doctors make my mother's life more comfortable -- because "my religious beliefs compel me to do so". That is the reasoning behind the "personal rights" and "religious freedom" comments saying that the kid's parents should be allowed to let him die because THEY don't believe in Modern Medical Science..
--nasionnaich
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| Abounding Hypocrisy | May 19th. at 11:07:01 pm EDT
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Jason SpiritWolf Bear (Fort Eustis, Virginia) - Email Me
First off let me begin the comment by saying that Doctors to whom I have seen first hand in the Army medical community do like "playing God" this is also true in the civilian world. As far as your comment on hypocrisy thats just funny so I guess that your children are just as sick like this boy that is with cancer seeing how you wish to not play god.
Thomas Paine wrote the line "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" it was Patrick Henry who published the famous pamphlet.
Furthermore the line about marrying off daughters after they menstrate was that if you can bleed you can breed and they marry off in order to not have another mouth to feed. and in addition yes this country does prolong adolescence beyond a reasonable age. This 13 year old was not brainwashed by his parents and in addition being that i serve this country I do not feel that it is right in the government to tell me how to raise my children or how they should be treated. Modern Medicine is in the business of prolonging illness in order for the money from insurance companies to be paid out. why dont you go back to school and do a little more research on those brain maturity studies you mentioned.
I say that the government and doctors really need to back off of this family and if the kid wants another way he should have it. Oh yeah Modern Medicine is learning that all those herbs out there in which these Rx drugs come from are actually more powerful than the drugs that are made from them. I applaud this 13 year old and say Rage against the dying of the light.
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| Just A Few Questions For The "Religious | May 19th. at 7:01:35 pm EDT
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Jenna (Cary, North Carolina) - Email Me
Libertarian" crowd: if your 13 year old daughter were to come home pregnant, would you be overjoyed or dismayed? If your 13 year old son were to drop out of school, would you throw him a party for making such a wise decision? If your 13 year old were to come home drunk would you simply shrug it off? If your answer to any of these question was "no", then mazel tov, you are actually a good parent with a bit of commonsense. We don't allow 13 year olds to work full time jobs (or even most part time jobs) , to drink alcohol, to vote, to leave home, to drop out of school, for good reason" THEY ARE CHILDREN!!! The more we learn about the brain, the more we discover how it matures and how we are not fully rational (for many people, they never develop their rationality, but that's a different story) until the age of 21. That is why teen girls believe that their high school boyfriends are the only loves they will ever have and why teen boys copy stunts on the tely without thinking about the possible damages. They are children trapped in the bodies of adults. Society used to solve this "problem" by marrying off girls as soon as they began menstruating and sending teen boys off to work and war, but thankfully we have evolved beyond that. Anyone who believes that a 13 year old is mature enough to make life and death decisions hasn't spent much time around 13 year olds. My stepdaughter is that age, and I can't even get her to bring down her dirty clothes or to turn off the lights. These are not people capable of making adult decisions.
As for Thomas Paine, I find it amusing that his name would be brought up since he clearly believed that humanity would be better off once religions were relegated to the status of mythology (fyi: it was Patrick Henry, not Thomas Paine, who said "Give me liberty or give me death") .
How do I feel about this case (if you, dear reader, haven't already ascertained my stance) ? I feel that beyond a shadow of a doubt, this boy has been brainwashed by his insane parents, and it is the duty of the court to do everything humanly possible in order to save his life. There have been many cases like this one where parents have taught their ill children to reject life saving treatement in favour of simply "praying away" their illnesses, and in almost every case, the children die or are left with severe life long damage which could had been completely avoided had the parents been rational and allowed the doctors to do their jobs. "Playing God"? Dear sir, do you own a refrigerator? Everytime you trust this appliance to keep your meat and dairy products fresh rather than leave them "in the hands of the divine" on your corner top you are "playing God". Everytime you have your children vaccinated (assuming that you possess the commonsense needed in order to take advantage of this modern miracle) you are "playing God". Everytime you wash your hands rather than allow your bathroom germs to spread to your food you are "playing God". Don't be a freaking hypocrite. We all know that when push comes to shove it is the miracle of modern medicine and science, not prayer and voudou, which possesses the power to cure and to heal. Enough said.
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| Where Did The Constitution Go????? | May 19th. at 3:42:12 pm EDT
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Jason SpiritWolf Bear (Fort Eustis, Virginia) - Email Me
The Constitution says that we have the freedom to believe what we wish to believe in. So why is it we have to tell a 13 year old that he cannot believe the way he wants and do what it is the "Big Brother" wants him too.
I feel sorry for this young person that he cannot live as he sees fit. Another question since when did this society dismiss our children as being to young to make informed decisions about their own well being. Go back to the Civil War and kids served and grew up on the battlefield. An 11 yr. old holds a Medal of Honor for being part of the Minnesota Drummers. We prolong adolescence further and further than it truly needs to be. Follow ancient societies and find that even the Spartans killed when they were young.
There are alternative treatments out there and truly doctors need to stop playing god and let the Divinty worry about being the Goddess' and Gods. I am disgusted with the trampling of rights in this country....saying kids cant make decisions or that the parents are neglecting the child because they wish to seek alternative treatment after the child wished to stop Chemo. Who would want all the possible side effects with Chemo. I applaud this child and in the name of Thomas Paigne "Give me Liberty or Give me Death"
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| Not Sure | May 19th. at 2:50:26 pm EDT
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Feathercloak (Grand Junction, Colorado) - Email Me
If the kid says he would kick and fight them himself........I really don't know.
Yes he may be brainwashed to his parents belief system, but the same could be said of any of our children who do not follow the dominant worldview. I feel for this kid and want him to get better, but I also want him to live in a world where he still believes he has the right to believe and live as he chooses.
My the Gods watch over this young man and give him the wisdom to make the choices he needs to get through this.
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| Rationality One - Religious Fanaticism, Zip | May 19th. at 12:36:25 am EDT
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nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me
Fresh fruits and veggies -- exactly what the kid has been eating almost all his life. The family does live on, and operate, a working farm......
And cancer is not caused solely by an "immune failure", it is largely a problem of cell mutation. I know, because I have gone through testicular cancer (more than 8 years "clean", so far) ... Even with help from the Veteran's Dept., money has gotten tighter since then and I really haven't been eating as I should, and gone through some fairly regular bouts of illness -- but that could very well be due to getting older, too (I'm 47 this summer) . I know for a fact that were it not for chemotherapy, I wouldn't be writing this now. Yes, the cancer had metastasized into the lymphatic system and surgery was not an option.
Here's the deal: the chemo that works on non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma ain't the chemo I had to use. They're two different kinds of chemical mix.
The side effects of chemotherapy are "pretty awful", but they are very much preferable to the alternative. That's the main reason the kid was ordered to go through chemo -- if his doctor (s) say it is needed. That kid's cancer is a type that is hard to knock out to begin with, and a second round of chemo would have been far better than herbs and "natural remedies".
By the way, one of my aunts died of what began as breast cancer. Although she did go through a few rounds of chemo, and the cancer did go into "remission" (as far as that type of cancer ever goes into "remission") , if it had been found earlier she would have likely lived another ten years. She was anything but "illiterate".
The family -- and the kid -- are "illiterate", though. But only in that they "belong to a religious group that believes in using only natural healing methods practiced by some American Indians". Just so y'all know, the Ojibwe (Anishinaabe) call cancer "The Spider" (asabikenhshii) -- and even their Grand Medicine Society (Midewiwin) , with all their "natural healing methods", has no cure for it. The Anishinaabe that I know, and they live a "Traditional" lifestyle (including food) , happen to be some of the healthiest people I have ever met.
--nasionnaich
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| Eight Kids? | May 18th. at 9:42:53 pm EDT
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Ahr-Ohn (Bridgeport, Connecticut) - Email Me
With 8 kids, the parents likely can't afford anything better than Prayer. Kid needs fresh fruits and vegetables, and Chemo wouldn't hurt, were it yet developed as an effective medicine.
Chemo is mostly shooting into the dark, in hopes of finding a magic bullet. Early Detection doesn't reduce the mortality rate of Cancer, but leads to the treatment of many cancers that would remiss spontaneously.
The current side effects of Chemo are pretty awful, I don't know the rate of Chemo Mortality, and those who market it aren't boasting, but Cancer is an immune failure, and Chemo doesn't do the immune system any favors.
Illiterate at 13 is what's really hurting this case. Judges tend to favor Literates, as an ethnic bias.
Arawn
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