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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 11742
[Science]
Date Posted:
12/10/2004
6:29:48 pm EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 13,385
RSS: 3,207
Comments: 29
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Man Plans Dinosaur Museum To Teach 'Creation Truth'
Author: Ed Kemmick Source: The Billings Gazette (MT)
Title: FAITH IN FOSSILS
  Otis Kline is hoping to build what he says will be the second-largest dinosaur and fossil museum in Montana, complete with a theater, laboratory and 13 full-size dinosaur replicas.
This would be a dinosaur museum with a twist, however.
Kline wants to use the fossils to teach visitors a strictly biblical account of creation, to "absolutely demolish," as he says on his Web site, "evolutionism's nonsense."
Mainstream scientists are as certain that the earth is billions of years old as they are that it is round, but Kline says he believes that the earth is 6,500 to 7,000 years old. He believes that the other planets, the moon, our sun and all the stars are as old as the earth, and that dinosaurs were among the animals that trooped, two by two, onto Noah's ark.
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Community Thoughts: There are 29 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| His Own "Natural Selection" !! | Dec 12th. at 12:02:37 am EST |
by Ananta (Greene, Maine) - wc_xemail
As far as I am concerned on most days, I think it's just fine that these kinds of "Christians" choose to learn and believe in such fallacies. If they thus make sure that the education of their future generations will ensure that they are totally incompetent to find work in any kind of endeavor which requires REASONING, let them starve, and let their attempt to reign over the world come to its inevitable ending. Perhaps with the extinction of the Abrahamics the world might finally get some peace and quiet.
As for textbook labelling, wouldn't it have been a hoot if, just after the statement that evolution hasn't been "proven" yet (neither has Pythagoras' theorem, or it wouldn't still be called his theory) the following statement were included on the same sticker:
"The two differing creation stories contained in the Old Testament are myth, and have no evidence whatsoever to back them up, except for the incessant bigoted screaming of the ignorant."
Gee, the way I feel now, I must have been needing to get that one of my chest for some while now. Uurrrrgh!
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| Bright Idea | Dec 11th. at 10:57:29 pm EST |
by R. Cicero (Seattle) - wc_xemail
Hey, who doesn't need another dinosaur museum in Montana. The best part is, it'll be a long way from the Pacific Ocean, so no one will accidentally sail off the edge of the world.
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| Flood Mythos And The Fundies Who Love It. | Dec 11th. at 9:15:24 pm EST |
by Richard Brownbear (Southern US) - wc_xemail
My Dad is well into his 70's, and a very devout Christian. I tried to have a conversation with him on the problems surrounding an Ark and a global flood.
After I pointed out a few major problems with it, he effectively cut off any further discussion about it by flatly stating, "God can do anything, so those are not "real" problems."
People like my Father just choose to live in a make-beleive world, just like this guy who wants to make a make-beleive museum.
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| Redefinitions: Good Or Bad? Fundies Can't Decide! | Dec 11th. at 4:10:21 pm EST |
by Kyra (America.) - wc_xemail
Hang on a sec . . . the Fundies are all in an uproar about people redefining marriage, but they don't mind redefining truth?
Ahh, of course. They like redefinitions only when *they* get to do the redefining.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." -Robert A. Heinlein, "Time Enough For Love."
Or, in this case, another woman's belly laugh. Mine.
Why can't all the religious nuts be the type that bury their heads in their Bibles and try to calculate the exact date of something that happened in the Bible? You know, like the Inquisition-era religious nut Bishop Ussher, who concluded that God created the Earth at 9:00 AM on October 23, 4004 BC. By counting back through that part of the Bible which keeps saying, so-and-so begat so-and so, who lived to be this old, and begat so-and-so (repeat ad infinitum) .
Crazy, yes. But less harmful than, say, the Inquisition.
And who wouldn't rejoice if Jerry Falwell decided to take a vow of silence?
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| Noah Arkwright | Dec 11th. at 2:50:35 pm EST |
by Fred Lawrence (Kansas, where the Dinosaurs Once Roamed) - wc_xemail
Mention of Noah is common in these comments. He's one of the more interesting characters in the Old Testament. After the Flood, he planted a vinyard and began making wine. He also drank it, making him the first drunkard in the Bible. He's become a role-model for many people.
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| Creation Censorship | Dec 11th. at 1:55:27 pm EST |
by Michael R. (AZ) - wc_xemail
I guess this evolution-free dinosaur exhibit will conveniently omit any mention of Archaeopteryx, the ancient bird with the teeth & tailbones of a reptile.
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| Seriousness And Mirth | Dec 11th. at 1:38:25 pm EST |
by youngermoon (TX) - wc_xemail
First the seriousness:
1. A museum like this already exists near Glen Rose, Texas, near Dinosaur Valley State Monument (I think I remember the name correctly) . The latter is a site along the Paluxey River that has several preseved dinosaur tracks, including those of a three-toed predator apparently following a herbivore. The rock in this area is primarily Cretaceous era limestone (the area used to be a shallow coral-reef lagoon on the edge of the sea) . The limeston is highly soluble and can be redeposited. Some of the artifacts the Creationist Museum has (or so I've read, I've never been there) are old metal hammers that are encased in rock (modern concretions, not fossils as they portray them) and reference the discovery of human footprints alongside the dinosaur tracks (although this has been discovered to be a hoax) .
2. I've heard some biologists state that they don't believe in evolution, but rather natural selection. Evolution implies that there is some kind of plan to the changes, that species are progressing toward better and better life forms, whereas a simple emphasis on natural selection highlights the variable response of genetic change to fluctuating environmental circumstances. This is still a far cry from Creationism, which is belief, not science, and has no place being taught in science courses.
3. This need to prove creation myths being unique to Christianity, is, I think, related to the various ways that the rise of Catholic Church created social tensions with the various ethnic groups that were converted and how they monopolized knowledge. For instance, much of what we know today as "science" was derived from classical thought originally put forward by the ancient Greeka and Romans but monopolized by the church until the Renaissance and Protestant Revolutions demanded secularization of the knowledge. With science out of the Church's domain, this seriously challenged the hegemony of the church and royal families over control of Europe and its colonial holdings. The Creationist backlash is part of this knowledge-power discourse, with religious authority trying to reassert itself over science, via the same type of reasoning and cultural reproduction (like museums) that sceince employs. It is a unique product of history more than an essential quality of Christianity that has produced this struggle.
4. Picky detail: Neanderthals (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) and Cro-Magnons (Homo sapiens sapiens) did coexist, and possibly interbred. Look up some info on the Shanadar Cave site, for instance. Hss is also thought by some to have brutally driven Hsn into extinction.
Now the Mirth:
1. There were already billions of species on earth at the supposed time of the flood that needed saving, much less all the ones that were already extinct.
2. They did not save any plants on the ark, so once they left the ark, there was no vegetation for the herbivores to eat, thus the food chain was broken, and the entire food web would collapse. Of course, this would be a moot issue if the starving carnivores simply ate the herbivores before they had a chance to starve themselves. Likewise, the starving humans would have been likely to eat everything in sight before they starved too. And then each other...Noah named his son "Ham" for a reason methinks...
3. The baby dinosaurs probably died because they lacked the proper parental guidance and fell into violent self-destructive lifestyles.
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| Ummmm. | Dec 11th. at 12:52:29 pm EST |
by celticgirl (Oregon, USA) - wc_xemail
Here's the definition of behemoth (Courtesy of MIriam Webster's online dictionary)
Main Entry: be·he·moth
Pronunciation: bi-'hE-m&th, 'bE-&-m&th, -"mäth, -"moth
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin, from Hebrew behEmOth
1 often capitalized : a mighty animal described in Job 40:15-24 as an example of the power of God
2 : something of monstrous size or power
OK, if I were to play along and be literalist, this would perfectly describe the aurochs, a massive breed of ox that could have influenced the writers of Job and still have been in folk memory when that book was written. The were massive!
A for putting baby dinosaurs on the ark...these people are just **cking with our heads, right?
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| Evolutionism's "noncence"!? | Dec 11th. at 12:24:42 pm EST |
by ForestWolf (Cheshire, England) - wc_xemail
OK, so if the concept of evolution is complete nonsence and creationism is the right way, I have a few questions:
Why is it that fossils are made of stone, and yet human bones dug up from the ground are still bone?
Early man drew and told stories of dragons. But what about all the other different varieties of dinosaur available?
Why does Geology date many rocks as older than the Earth is in the creation-theory?
Cosmologists have worked out from the colours of various stars (which helps determine their size and age) , and other phenomena like background microwave radiation and red/blue shift of light, that the universe is 6 orders of magnitude greater than the creationists think - somewhere between 11.2 and 20 billion years old.
Now, the xian creation-story is something I don't subscribe to, but I propose one hypothesis for the creationists: Maybe a "God-Day" is longer than what we now know as a day? Maybe existance was created in seven steps rather than days, spanning billions of years? That way, everyone's happy. And it allows for dinosaurs being 65-or-so-million years older than we are. After all, evolutionism has piles of evidence. Creationism just has the 2000-year-old ramblings of a couple of middle-eastern philosophers who decided to write a book. Here's a happy medium.
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| A Question | Dec 11th. at 12:01:51 pm EST |
by Owlfeather (Battle Ground, WA) - wc_xemail
"Only fossils of the dinosaurs remain because the Flood so altered the earth that dinosaurs could not survive in the new environment, Kline said."
My question is.... isn't THAT evolution?
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| The Only Thing... | Dec 11th. at 10:06:59 am EST |
by Lunar Man ('New Yawk') - wc_xemail
... I find funnier than this comical concept is that some people would actually line up and pay to see it...
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| Stupid Like A Fox? | Dec 11th. at 8:15:51 am EST |
by C. McKeown (Lafayette, LA) - wc_xemail
Cold this guy possibly be as dumb as he appears, or does he enivision making a living off the stupidity of others with his museum's admissions fees? Methinks it's probably a little from column A, a little from column B.
As for dinosaurs not fitting on the ark--come on, Folks, read the full artilce. He said they all (snort) could have been (giggle) ICKLE BABY DINOSAURS!!! Bwa ha ha ha haaaaaah!!
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| Do The Math | Dec 11th. at 6:59:41 am EST |
by gina (Round Rock, TX) - wc_xemail
OK, according to the bible, the ark was 300 cubits by 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high, three stories in all. A cubit was about 18 inches (the length of the forearm, so it varied depending on the size of the man, but that is a good estimate) - so what is that 450 feet by 75 feet and about 45 feet high? That makes each story about 15 feet high...
Not a lot of room for a dinosour much less the animals that were going to actually live after the flood. The clean animals came by the sevens, it was only the unclean animals that came in male/female pairs. I wonder what all the carnivorous animals ate while they were on this boat ride? And where did they store the plant food for the herbavors... What did Noah and his family eat? Also, did they cease from their burnt offerings during this time on the ark? That would seem unlikely...
Now, the rain came down for 40 days and nights but the water did not recede for a lot longer: it was in the second month of Noah's 600th year that the rain began and they entered the ark and they did not leave the ark until the first month of Noah's 601st year.
So for almost a full year, all of them lived on that ark. I am thinking that ark would have had to be the size of Texas (or bigger) to hold all the animals plus all the animals needed for the animals to eat. But, of course, what do I know, maybe god shrunk them for the year?!?!
I assume this man in the article would be able to answer all my questions using the Bible....
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| Hehehehe.... | Dec 11th. at 3:30:14 am EST |
by Chen (NZ) - wc_xemail
Cannot help laughing here....sweet Goddess, how is it that more people believes in the doctrine of the God of Fiction as opposed to the God of Fact and the Goddess of Knowledge.
Oh yes, for the same reason scientific journals do not reach bestseller status as opposed to fantasy novels!
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| METAPHOR!!!!! | Dec 11th. at 1:06:10 am EST |
by Triura (Portland OR) - wc_xemail
It seems that a prerequisite to being a Christian is an absolute failure to grasp the concept of "metaphor."
Is there *any* other religion besides Christianity that actually tries to prove its creation myth happened? To me, things like this point to a severe insecurity in one's religion of choice, if one feels they have to prove a myth. I happen to think the universe came from the Great Mother; evolution doesn't invalidate that, because She created that, too, as far as I'm concerned. There is a way to have faith and science in the same brain...
Reason #127 why I'm not Christian has been brought to you by: the number 13 and the letter W
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