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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 9186
[Legal]
Date Posted:
2/18/2004
6:26:09 pm EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 5,207
RSS: 0
Comments: 10
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Court Orders Nebraska Commandments Monument Out
Author: WOWT Source: WOWT (NE)
Title: COURT ORDERS MONUMENT OUT
A federal appeals court Wednesday upheld a ruling that a Ten Commandments monument must be removed from a city park in Plattsmouth.
The American Center for Law and Justice, a group that focuses on family and religious issues, had asked the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to review an earlier ruling by a federal judge.
U.S. District Judge Richard Kopf of Lincoln had rejected the city's argument that the monument is protected by the First Amendment's guarantee of religious freedom.
The five-foot tall, granite monument lists the Ten Commandments and is emblazoned with two Stars of David, which are symbols of the Jewish faith.
Kopf said the monument "conveys a message that Christianity and Judaism are favored religions."
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Community Thoughts: There are 10 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Addendum | Feb 19th. at 12:36:06 am EST |
by Gaellyn (Demorest, GA) - wc_xemail
The distinction between "public" and "government-owned" needs to be taken into account. Anyone is free on public or private property to exercise their First Amendment rights; However, these are Individuals, not Government, and therein the difference lies.
The government doesnt have "rights", per se. The entire point of the constitution is LIMITING the governments "rights"...And one of those limits is maintaining neutrality in religious matters.
Whether or not an elected or appointed official is Christian doesnt matter in the slightest, in their personal life and choices, or even if some of the morals bleed over into their public actions. It DOES cross the line, tho, when the government itself starts having these opinions.
PEOPLE can post the Ten Commandments, the Rede, the Eight Noble Truths, excerpts from the Qu'ran, ANYTHING they'd like. The Government, in it's official capacity, cannot.
::bows out::
peace and blessings
gaellyn
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| Misinformation | Feb 19th. at 12:27:52 am EST |
by Gaellyn (Demorest, GA) - wc_xemail
The Fact that its not displayed on "federal" property has no bearing on this case whatsoever. The due process clause and the 14th amendment, along with judicial review, make ANY government, be it municipal, county, or state, ultimately answerable to the US Constitution. Time and time again, courts have ruled that the Ten Commandments, while including secular elements, is a primarily religious document; And, since the Lemon Test mandates that all actions of government must NOT be primarily religious in nature, advance one religion over another (or inhibit a religion, either) , and must not excessively entangle Government in religion, the consistant viewpoint of the US courts has been that the posting of the Ten Commandments is unconstitutional, IF the primary purpose of the posting was religious. This obviously doesn't include TRUE "historical displays", where the TC has no prominent position and is included with many other documents.
This Monument is in a City owned park. I'd be interested to know how it got there, if it wasnt placed there by the city. If, as in Habersham County, it was placed there in a religious fervor, this would fail all three prongs of the Lemon Test.
I think some of us have a lot of gall to believe our interpretations of the law and constitution are for some reason more valid that US Court Judges and historical jurisprudence...
Peace and blessings
Gaellyn
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| You Know... | Feb 18th. at 11:34:16 pm EST |
by Randy Critzer (omaha, NE) - wc_xemail
If they had added an 11th commandment that said "GO BIG RED!" they probably let it stay!
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| Hmm... | Feb 18th. at 11:21:28 pm EST |
by Magdaléna (Nebraska) - wc_xemail
... damn Nebraskans. :P
hehe, just messing. But if it IS in a public place, I don't see anything wrong with it.
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| What The Constitution Says | Feb 18th. at 10:57:25 pm EST |
by Sincera (Texas) - wc_xemail
The First Amendemt says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The courts, and admitedly they have more business interpreting it then this lowly college sophomore, have said this means seperation of church and state. In actualality, if you look at the exact wording of it, it says that the government can not establish a state sponsered religion nor can they stop us from excersising our religion of choice. There is nothing in there that states that a monument cannot be put up to a particular religion on government property. By the wording of the First Amendment, the Christians can put up a plaque of the Ten Commandments just as long as we are allowed to do the same with the Rede or the other religions can do the same with their moral codes. I think this boils down to a universal law, it is always easier to destroy then to create. It is easier for someone to b***h and moan about this and get it taken down then to make one of their own to put up.
All that having been said, I don't think that any government employee or anyone in a position of power in government should be the one to do it. Roy Moore was wrong to do it simply because since he was Chief Justice in Alabama, it appeared to be a government sponsorship of the Christian religion. Now if anyone doesn't like this, I say to bad, it's the way it is right now. The best way to change it is research what a citizen must do to get a Consititutional Amendment introduced and do it.
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| When I See A... | Feb 18th. at 10:25:07 pm EST |
by Reyn Silversong (Smyrna, Georgia) - wc_xemail
Pagan monument, let's say a listing of the 8 tenets (I forgot the proper term) of Buddhism, the laws of Wicca, etc and so forth, then I'll not object as much to the ten commandments being cited as historical and literary.
The point is this - Government owned and run facilities have no business with religious objects in this country - it is illegal and unconstitutional. I'd object if it was a Pagan monument, as much as if it were a Abrahamic religious monument.
I love how the religious right is claiming they are being discriminated against, because the constitution is being inforced on this now. They don't have to worry about who they tell they are a Christian to, fearing someone will poison the dogs, keep them from getting a job, or even telling DFACS that they abuse their children (or worse, plan on sacrificing them in some dark ritual) and having their little ones stolen from them. I've heard all sorts of stories about this happening to Pagans, and its not even been that long since WWII. So, where is this persecution that these people are facing? That others are starting to stand up to not be forced into a narrow band of belief?
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| Um, Freedom Of Religion | Feb 18th. at 9:17:09 pm EST |
by Midnight Rainbow (Michigan) - wc_xemail
Hey, I think their monument is fine. It IS a public place, but it's not a federal place. I firmly support the separation of church and state, but the concept started simply to keep the State from establishing a mandatory religion--as happened in England before the Revolution here. I feel that the government has no right to tell me I must follow a certain religion. But along the same lines, and by the same argument, it has no right to tell somebody they may not follow a certain religion. As long as the monument isn't on FEDERAL property, and as long as a GOVERNMENT group didn't put it there, I think it's fine. Just my thoughts, though.
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| Ok Lets Think About This | Feb 18th. at 8:47:33 pm EST |
by Kristy (West Palm Beach) - wc_xemail
Lets look at it from this point of view: 1 amendment: sepration of church and state. This means no religion in federal, state, county, city, and ALL OTHER PUBLIC PLACES.
How would they feel if they had to look at some pagan moument. They would throw a fit and it would be the sh*t storm of the century. If that mounment is allowed what's to stop them from forcing certain types of prayer in school.
Lets not forget: we what to be above those who throw religion in others faces. If we do the same thing they do; we are not better than them.
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| Ya Right | Feb 18th. at 8:24:52 pm EST |
by David Eagan (Madison, WI) - wc_xemail
IT was removed because having a religious monument on public property is illegal. The monument was being supported with public money even if it was established privately. Not looking at it and pretending its not there is an irresponsible reaction to crime. Its like saying that ignoring the klan is a good way to stop the lynchings, or ignoring domestic abuse next door so it doesnt bother you. the
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| Removed For What!!!! | Feb 18th. at 7:24:02 pm EST |
by LightHawk (Dallas, TX) - wc_xemail
What nonsence. The Christians and the Jews have as much right to that momument as do the Pagans. Why don't WE propose to do something like that. Honestly, there is no "favoring of religions" going on, just the nagging yapping of sad liberals.
If it really bothers you so much, don't look at it. Plain and simple.
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