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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 19896
[Civil]
Date Posted:
8/1/2008
2:55:52 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 19,772
RSS: 13,459
Comments: 12
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Religious Remarks Created Hostile Workplace, N.J. Justices Rule
Author: The Associated Press Source: First Amendment Center Online
Title: RELIGIOUS REMARKS CREATED HOSTILE WORKPLACE, N.J. JUSTICES RULE
  Derogatory comments about a Jewish police officer's religion were more than just teasing and constituted a hostile work environment, the New Jersey Supreme Court ruled yesterday.
The decision could have widespread impact, as the court determined that the standard for demonstrating religious discrimination is the same as that for sexual or racial harassment.
The 5-0 decision by New Jersey's highest court upheld a Camden County jury ruling in favor of Haddonfield Police Officer Jason Cutler. It reversed an appellate ruling that characterized the remarks as "teasing." Two justices did not participate in yesterday’s ruling in Cutler v. Dorn.
A lawyer for the police department says the ruling means ethnic jokes are essentially barred from the workplace.
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Community Thoughts: There are 12 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Necessary Ruling | Aug 4th. at 12:19:21 pm EDT
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Silverose (Indianapolis, Indiana) - Email Me
I have to agree with this ruling. Discriminatory remarks of any kind do not belong in the workplace and, quite frankly, discussions about religion do not belong in the workplace unless that workplace is an outwardly religious institution--ie, church, mission, etc.
My father was a police officer for 25 years, and I have completed two internships with different police departments in different parts of the country and I was shocked and dismayed at how many deragotory and discriminatory comments and "jokes" go around; it's quite common among LEOs (yes, including my father) . I know LEOs have difficult jobs to do, and humor often is the only thing that gets them through the day, but for individuals who are supposed to enforce the law equally among all peoples whatever the race, ethnicity, religion, etc., deragotory humor against one of their OWN is absolutely reprehensible.
How could that officer in NJ ever feel comfortable having someone watching his back who thinks of him only as a Jew or, even worse, a "dirty Jew"? How would you, as a Pagan, feel knowing that your life may one day depend on the very person or people who call YOU a "dirty rotten heathen" both behind your back and to your face?
And it doesn't matter where that officer goes or what department he transfers to in any state; there's a 90% or better likelihood that he will just transfer into the exact same type of discriminatory atmosphere.
The fact that some Pagans apparently think it is okay to "joke" about another individual's religion despite our own general aversion to having it done to us makes me sick.
Silverose
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| One Or The Other | Aug 3rd. at 9:29:02 pm EDT
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Raeven (Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio) - Email Me
it's one thing to go along with the jokes, initially seeing the "humor" in them. The downside to that is the ones pulling the jokes get the impression that the jokee is perfectly fine with all of it and decides to up the ante. At which point does it stop being a joke and become derogatory? Cutler may have gone along with the jokes initially....and in doing so keeping the pain if any internalized.....but the message has been made clear that he no longer sees the humor. Do we know if he made the appropiate complaints to his superiors? No. One would hope that he had followed Chain of Command before resorting to the Legal System.
We as a society are becoming less and less like those of our ancestors. Everyone is too afraid to say what they really feel or think because it might offend someone. Folks just need to grow up and be responsible for their actions.
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| Now-a-days | Aug 3rd. at 7:39:46 pm EDT
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Azuris-Raen (Austin, Texas) - Email Me
it all depends on the interpretation of the receiving end. Regardless of the subject or harshness of the joke; if any person (even not on the receiving end or a eavsedropper) takes offence in some way they can report it to their superiors, and the jokester, can get into trouble.
Times are changing, feelings are becoming easier and easier to hurt, due to the obvious fact that the mainstream are loosing their self identity; by handing the reins to someone else. Thats why i'm one of the Other People... chuckle!!!...
Brighest Blessings and may The Light protect thee! ^_^ Azuris-Raen
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| I Agree With This Ruling | Aug 3rd. at 3:05:45 pm EDT
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Tommy (Montross, South Carolina) - Email Me
This ruling shouldn't be taken too harshly. It's just a further extension of the freedom of religion and freedom from public discrimination we all try to fairly enjoy. Hopefully this will keep the fundies from pushing their jibe down more universalist or all out witchy throats. Now all we need is to have sexual harassment discrimination extended more completely to LGBT in the workplace. It's always a work in progress, hence the not feeling to harshly about it. I think if we didn't have differences to judge and discriminate each other by we would just make some up, lol.
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| More | Aug 2nd. at 7:07:32 pm EDT
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Bookworm (Saint Paul, Minnesota) - Email Me
I found a little more on this on another site.
One of the things that wasn't mentioned in this article was an officer responding to a Jewish athletic event coming to town with "Let's get rid of all of those dirty Jews," then claiming it was just "stupid locker-room humor." Even with my sometimes perverse sense of humor, I find it hard to imagine that as anything but viciously hostile and not the least funny in any context. It also makes me think that the other comments going around had an uglier undertone than good-natured "teasing," although they might have been disguised as such.
Frankly, I think this kind of joking can be worse than outright hostility. It purposely discourages the target from complaining, as it was "just a joke." And yes, sometimes the targets will laugh even if uncomfortable or offended, hoping to deflect further abuse by showing that they got the "humor" in it that they're one of the team. But it often just invites more scapegoating. Intimidation can come with a laugh and a wink and still be intimidation.
Find More info -- HERE
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| Hit The Nail On The Head! | Aug 2nd. at 6:54:55 pm EDT
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Aidan Odinson (Collingdale, Pennsylvania) - Email Me - Web
People will make stupid remarks and claim to be "just kidding" and then they get upset when the tables are turned.
I recall twice in the same office, someone thought they were "just kidding." And so, I decided to do some "just kidding" in return. It was very simple and innocent, really. When the person who had done a "just kidding" on me was out of the office and someone was looking for him, I simply said that he had an appointment with his parole officer, that's all.
Funny, how people who love to "kid" don't like it when the tables are turned!
Maybe those who wish to dip into their savings and invest in a clue might be able to learn something here!
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| "ethic" Doesn't Have To Mean Derogatory | Aug 2nd. at 10:41:52 am EDT
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Penny J Novack (Charlemont, Massachusetts) - Email Me
I'm blond. I think Blond Jokes are stupider than the supposed blonds they're skewering.
It totally repulses me when someone isn't happy unless they're telling vicious jokes about ethnic, sexist and race categories.
But it doesn't mean that jokes can't be told. It's like the "How many ... does it take to screw in a lightbulb" jokes. You have seen the really funny ones -- where the humor was due to how close they come to the truth. There could very well be vicious caricaturish versions. And if you can't laugh unless somebody's being abused I'm sure that's funny. For the rest of us such "jokes" are just about immature hostilities and stupidity.
Even ethnic jokes can be sane.
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| Jokes Did What? | Aug 2nd. at 2:43:14 am EDT
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Thoreyadin (Randolph, Ohio) - Email Me
I find it hard to believe that jokes like that desensitized people to permit the Holocaust almost 70 years ago. The problem I find with this story is that this may have gone on for 4 and a half years, with the man getting promoted and not saying anything or filing before then. The article stated one reference to the *Jewish nose*, what about an Italian or Native American nose or large hands or large feet? Are there some people here that are old enough to see where I am going? We do not hear the whole story here. Did the man go along with said jokes? Did something else happen and he is upset? I do feel that people are getting really thin skinned. There will be some that get upset about this comment. I am German and Heathen, some will say whatever that I am a skinhead and a racist (sp) . I know better. Point is, If it was a Hostile work enviroment then Good that it has been taken cae of. If not, We are all wasting our time and energy commenting on it.
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| It's "Jokes" Like That | Aug 1st. at 6:30:20 pm EDT
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Jenna (Cary, North Carolina) - Email Me
That desensitized people enough to permit the Holocaust. They were mean, ugly comments, and there was nothing funny about them unless one is an antiSemite (so Mel Gibson might want to hire that cop to perform standup at his son's birthday party) . I was disgusted and shocked that this can even be debated as being a joke. It's time for all ethnic jokes to end anyway. Archie Bunker is no longer America's bigotted hero, Seinfeld is the favourite sitcom, and people need to regard others in terms of humanity rather than outdated stereotypes. And yes, this means Chris Rock needs to retire his "cracker" jokes too. Racism can definitely be more than just a white Anglo thing.
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| Eye Of The Beholder.... | Aug 1st. at 6:13:06 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
While I do agree that we are becoming far too thin skinned, there are times when an ethnic or sexist joke- can- backfire and be interpreted as a slur, and there are times when it -is- meant to be a slur, but disguised as something of a "joke".
It happens in the workplace far too often, and it's not just ethinic. It can be religious also.
The problem lies in proving it.
Frankly, I prefer to call a spade a spade, and I don't mind some jokes at my expense if they are truly meant to be funny, but the line is rather thin these days and I would prefer not to create problems.
For the budding stand up- comics to be, a word of advice. Know your crowd. There are times when even a top banana can get peeled unexpectedly.
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| According To The Article | Aug 1st. at 5:05:51 pm EDT
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foreverknightfan (Dardanelle, Arkansas) - Email Me
some on the police department said the guy participated in his own ethnic jokes. If this was supposedly a " hostlle workplace", wouldn't it have been more than just jokes?
Personally I think this is in the eye of the beholder. Sure there are people who make religious and ethnical jokes as well as sexist jokes. But are the intentions hostile? we all can name situations where it does become a hostile working environment.
But I doubt this case qualifies.
Is it bad, ten for a balc person to use the N word? Or a Pagan to tell Redneck Pagan jokes?
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