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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 19823
[Civil]
Date Posted:
7/8/2008
10:53:55 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 5,232
RSS: 13,141
Comments: 22
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Ohio Town Split Over Teacher Accused Of Preaching
Author: Matt Reed, AP Source: Google
Title: OHIO TOWN SPLIT OVER TEACHER ACCUSED OF PREACHING
Demonstrations on the town square show how divided people are over the school board's decision to fire a science teacher accused of preaching his Christian beliefs in the classroom and burning crosses on students' arms.
John Freshwater, 52, was fired last month after an outside consulting firm released a report concluding that he taught creationism and was insubordinate in failing to remove a Bible and other religious materials from his classroom at Mount Vernon Middle School.
Some residents consider him a courageous fighter for religious freedom. Others say he has brazenly violated the church-state divide.
"This is going to be a mess," said Dr. Allan Bazzoli, who has written letters to the local newspaper criticizing Freshwater.
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Community Thoughts: There are 22 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Uh... | Jul 11th. at 7:10:42 pm EDT
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NightLad (Toronto, Ontario) - Email Me
>>> "The Bible, that should be OK to have," said James Mills, 25, a former student of Freshwater. "Isn't it in the Constitution that we have freedom of religion?"
If James is a former student, than I seriously question what the heck this school is teaching. How is it that he came out of school thinking that Freedom of Religion excuses preaching in public school classrooms and burning images (I don't care if it was a cross or a Wal*Mart happy-face) into children's arms? Sheesh. Some people will seek any excuse to shove their religious beliefs down the throats of others... even if it means supporting a psycho who should have been fired over a decade ago.
I was very interested to learn that the school board has been receiving complaints for 11 years and they did nothing. : (
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| Temporary Or Not | Jul 11th. at 5:28:35 pm EDT
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Jenna (Cary, North Carolina) - Email Me
Painful or not, this ba$tard had NO RIGHT to brand other people's (I don't think that even parents should have that right, but alas circumcision is still considered to be a parent's choice) children! PERIOD. I honestly don't know what this freak thought was going to happen: all the kids were going to go home and their parents would simply say "Oh, what a lovely cross (which, as someone who loves medieval art and owns many crosses, I can tell you it wasn't) ! You're teacher must be full of the Lord!" I don't care how devout you are or of what faith, your children should come first. If this had been my child, they would have had to put El Freako under protection because I would had made a mark myself and would had collected some teeth in the process. My 9 year old son has read the works of Darwin already and has had to defend evolution at his school, with many of the teachers choosing to remain neutral in favour of the religious kids. We have enough stupid, uneducated kids growing up in this country suffering under the influence of their stupid, uneducated parents. We don't need teachers reinforcing this in supposedly secular schools.
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| So Shall I Hold True | Jul 10th. at 8:44:25 pm EDT
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Mysteries Child (Garfield, Arkansas) - Email Me
I put the headline in their language ("As you hold true on Earth, so shall I hold true in Heaven") instead of ours ("As above, so below") because this is about them.
Anyone who calls themselves a follower of Christ and then engages in the brutal harrassment of a fellow had better get on their knees the next time the preacher gives an altar call and humbly beg forgiveness from the tormented depths of a contrite heart.
Even if the God I worshipped when I called myself a Christian would hold the children innocent, the adults that taught them to behave that way would have to beg forgiveness and repent their sin or burn in Hell.
They'd deserve it. Nasty little sh*ts wouldn't know [Jesus] if he walked up and washed their feet. They'd probably kick [Him], just for being a Jew.
'Course, almost every preacher I met back when I called myself a Christian had serious concerns about the state of my soul.
Sometimes, even The Tolerance Nut of Wren's Nest feels like picking up a sword and crying havoc.
Or just plain crying. The things that people do make me want to f*ck*ng PUKE.
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| Harrasment Of Students At That School | Jul 9th. at 12:12:22 pm EDT
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GreeneDragon (Palmdale, California) - Email Me
(continued from below) I also would like to suggest reading an interesting article/editorial from this [ [Web LINK] ].
It seems kids who don't "support" John Freshman are getting harrased by good Christian kids who do.
Some of the more interesting quotes are:
...a Jewish child who brought his Torah to school when other students brought Bibles in support of Freshwater,” she continued. “He thought he was supporting freedom of religious expression, and the other kids just ripped him apart. ‘What are you doing?’ they asked. ‘You can’t support Mr. Freshwater, you’re Jewish.’ So they don’t get it.
and:
...[a Christian girl] wore a T-shirt to school that read, “I don’t need to wear a special T-shirt to be a Christian.” That individual was reportedly pushed into the lockers and called a “stupid atheist b****.”
and last but not least:
Several people ... have asked what the response would be if a teacher had a wiccan book or a Koran on the desk. “Would the students be supporting a teacher under those circumstances?” she asked. “I don’t think so.
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| Getting All The Facts | Jul 9th. at 12:03:45 pm EDT
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GreeneDragon (Palmdale, California) - Email Me
OK, let's see if we can get ALL the facts straight about this wacko of a teacher...
First and foremost he did NOT permanently brand or scar these kids. Saying he did makes **us** look like uneducated nutjobs. Yes he did burn them, but it was about as bad as a moderate sunburn done in little dots and it has long faded off the kids' skin. Let's get the facts straight and know what we are talking about.
Besides the original story there are a lot of interesting things out there that feed this story and I think we should read them...
Here is a [ [Web LINK] ] to an article by another whacko that says the whole thing is a liberal media plot to smear a good man. On the other hand, here is a [ [Web LINK] ] to an article and a [ [Web LINK] ] to a pdf of the official report issued by an outside HR consulting firm which ws hired to conduct a legally defensible investigation. Looks like the wacky article writer needs to get his facts straight.
Ultimately the best evidence against the man is his own statement of defiance to the schoolboard which can be read at this [ [Web LINK] ] to a small pdf containing his response to the schoolboard's request that he keep his bible off of his desktop. In it he clearly states not only that he has no intention to comply with the request, but that he does not recognize the authority of the schoolboard to govern his "free expression of my faith when I walk into the school". In other words he reserves the right to teach Christian views **while** serving as a public employee under the authority of the schoolboard and taxpayers.
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| The Fact Is... | Jul 9th. at 11:54:48 am EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
whether or not there are permanent marks or not, this action should not have been done at all. The mere sight of a student being marked at all without parental support is just plain wrong.
It's almost like sending a student home with disagreeable literature.
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| A Mess Indeed | Jul 9th. at 8:13:59 am EDT
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Moonlight Wolf (Bradford, England) - Email Me
This guy deserved to be fired for branding crosses into students arms. That is going too far. If he was a proselysing Pagan then the town would be only a stone throw from angry mobbing him and we would be denouncing him left right and centre.
The fact that there is big support from people for this guy shows them up as a bunch of crazy fundies.
And I completely agree over the big question mark of why this wasn't dealt with sooner.
If this guy is so hung up on religion then why on earth was he a science teacher in the first place.
Oh, to convert and preach how evil the sciences are.
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| Fundies Are Brainless AND Heartless | Jul 8th. at 10:17:07 pm EDT
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Richard Brownbear (North Wilkesboro, North Carolina) - Email Me
Just goes to show you how much those idiotic Fundies really care about those kids............most of them probably agree to some form of child abuse/torture.
They just do not care about the kids welfare, as long as Jay-zus word is spread!
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| More Reverse Logic | Jul 8th. at 9:53:24 pm EDT
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Ander s. Drake (hays, Kansas) - Email Me
"Freshwater's supporters have rallied on the town's square urging school board members to resign. A much-viewed sign about a mile from town reads: "If the Bible goes, the school board should follow",
"Investigators also found that at least one school administrator dealt with complaints about Freshwater for much of her 11 years at the district."
Your rights end where other people's rights begin!
Only a bully picks on children who can not stand up for themselves. Having been in classes where teachers tried to prostelyze me, i know that almost any school staff will support each other over a child. It takes courage to stand up for yourself when most people will blame you for being victimized. Keep a bible in your desk if you want and wear a dozen crosses for all I care but unsolicited proletyzing has no place in a public school or any where else for that matter. public schools "An elementary or secondary school in the United States supported by public funds and providing free education for children of a community or district." ( [Web LINK] ) Which means that every one in the community goes there, which also means it has to be sensitive to all the people's beliefs. When you use your position to abuse children, who's it was your responsibility to insure their well being then one must accept the consequences for their actions. Franky, getting fire is getting off lightly for what i would call eleven years of abusing children. It doesn't matter if some of the children like you, it matters that you hurt some of them.
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| OK, Which Part Of.... | Jul 8th. at 9:11:04 pm EDT
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Batman (Madison, Wisconsin) - Email Me
....PHYSICAL ABUSE TO A MINOR do people NOT understand? It seems pretty clear to me? The fact that this man is not incarcerated because of this is proof of how extremist this town truly is.
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| Makes Ya Wonder.... | Jul 8th. at 8:27:05 pm EDT
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Thorin (Newaygo, Michigan) - Email Me
Makes ya wonder what would happen if a Pagan or Heathen teacher branded kids with a cross, or other symbol to denote they were of a "wrong" faith??? Hmmmm.....can you say...."Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass GO"!!?????
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| Ok | Jul 8th. at 7:27:25 pm EDT
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MoonCat (White Haven/Gettysburg, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
Before anyone else overreacts to the branding issue it should be clarified that the "branding" was a demonstration that leaves no permanent marks and I am certain is painless. Should parents have been informed? Yes. Should he be fired if he can't keep his religious viewpoints out of the science room? Yes. Should he have decided to simply not teach any theory of how life began instead of going for creationism? Yes. Is the branding the most serious issue here? Heck no.
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| This Freak Did This For 11 Years??? | Jul 8th. at 6:35:15 pm EDT
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Jenna (Cary, North Carolina) - Email Me
I don't care what someone's religious views are, no one but no one (and that includes parents) should have the right to brand a child! That is, by any sense of the word, criminal. It's unbelievable that this fool (I'd like to use another "F" word, but I know that it won't be printed) was able to learn to read, let alone being able to earn a place as a teacher and guardian of children. So Disgusting. The Creationism is bad and can be dealt with, but the branding is simply insane. Why does he have any supporters at all? Do these people not care what happens to children as long as the abuse is being done in Jesus's name? As for his question of "Why ask science teachers" if he was doing an acceptible job, well, BECAUSE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TEACHING SCIENCE,FREAKO!!! They may be able to tell if you are teaching children actual science from a text book or if you're teaching myths from Genesis. Duh.
As for religious schools, I went to a Catholic school run by old nuns (yes, the kind with rulers) and priests and none of them would had dreamt of burning a child AND we had a science education as secular as any public school. Biology was biology; religion class was for religion and that's how it was. Sigh. Once again, Martin Luther ranks above Hitler as a person who changed history for the worst. Ever since the Reformation, every freak with a Bible thinks he's God's true prophet and this garbage is the result. You just don't get this insanity with the RCC (not that I'm going back anytime soon, for various reasons) .
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| Public School Vs Private School | Jul 8th. at 4:40:03 pm EDT
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Sistersea (Bellingham, Washington) - Email Me
There are places of education where preaching christianity is appropriate. IN A PRIVATE SCHOOL. This is a publicly funded school and preaching about any religion should never have been tolerated. I was even more disturbed about the "cross burning".
I doubt that would be tolerated in even the most rabid christian school. I personally would call it abuse or assault, which happened by the way during school, and by a teacher. I wonder why every parent there is not infuriated at a creepy man who would do this sort of thing to students.
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| I Agree | Jul 8th. at 2:47:47 pm EDT
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Silver Dragonfly (Lucama, North Carolina) - Email Me
I agree with alot of you. He did Brand a child!!!
He should be in jail not petitioning for his job back. Are criminal charges even being brought up.
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