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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 19599
[Politics]
Date Posted:
4/17/2008
10:01:20 am EDT
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Views: 6,514
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Comments: 16
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Faith Freedom Measure Rapped
Author: Barbara Hoberock Source: Tulsa World (OK)
Title: FAITH FREEDOM MEASURE RAPPED
Education groups say a bill that's intended to allow students more freedom to express religious views could create huge liabilities for schools. The Senate passed the bill Wednesday.
The measure, House Bill 2633, includes the "Religious Viewpoints Antidiscrimination Act" by Sen. James A. Williamson, R-Tulsa. He got it attached to the bill as an amendment after a Senate committee refused to hear the proposal.
The amendment states: "Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school district. Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work."
Keith Ballard, executive director of the Oklahoma State School Boards Association, said the law is not necessary and would create legal liabilities for districts.
"If we put this into law, we do open it up for some liability," he said. "We open ourselves up for bringing in other viewpoints that we might object to, such as pagan worship or things like that. I think we are opening up a can of worms."
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Community Thoughts: There are 16 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Such A Dry, Logical Class.... | Apr 19th. at 3:31:36 pm EDT
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Katmandu (elba, Alabama) - Email Me
as is seemingly described would've put me to sleep in high school. It makes it seem as if the teachers will be allowed only to use the tests provided by the textbook publishers and that the students won't have to think about the questions at all.
I had a teacher who did that. He even let us look up the answers in the book. I saw him as inept and lazy. Do we want to breed more of that into the schools? Do we want more bright but totally bored students?
There really is no easy solution. This is no easy problem.
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| Flawed Legislation | Apr 19th. at 3:51:23 am EDT
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argilcath (Rapid City, Colorado) - Email Me
I've been following stories about this on another site. The legislator and his constituency appear to have expectations based more on wishful thinking than on observable human behaviour.
One quote from this article, an argument from an opponent of the law, is actually incorrect: [quote] Mark Bledsoe, executive director of the United Suburban Schools Association, said one section of Williamson's amendment could force schools to accept student papers and tests that are not responsive.
For example, he said, a student could be asked to explain Darwin's theory of evolution but respond that he or she believes that God created the universe.
"I can't grade your test under that legislation," Bledsoe said. "It creates, in my opinion, additional liability for schools to be sued. It creates a protection for your religious beliefs when they are not relevant." [/quote]
The amendment clearly states "Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school district." _ *prior to* _ "Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work." Thus, a teacher can follow the letter of the law while still teaching the subject to high academic standards. The key is to phrase homework assignments and test questions clearly and unambiguously.
So: a question asking students to list the earth's geologic stages and their time frames, as described in the curriculum textbook from the research of X,Y, and Z, and accepted by current mainstream scientific community has only one correct answer. A question asking students what X and Y discovered about evolution regarding [insert species or process] from their work conducted during [insert years] has only one correct answer. Such questions sidestep entirely whether the student "believes" the material -- it ascertains only whether they read it. An answer of belief that the Earth is 6,000 years old and was created by God in six 24-hour days can -- and must -- be marked as incorrect, because it did not answer the question.
A question asking the student to list the major contributing causes to [insert historical event] based on [insert chapter X of textbook X] has only one correct answer. An answer of belief that atheists, [p]agans and communists were deceived by the devil in defiance of God's will can -- and must -- be marked as incorrect because it did not answer the question.
A question asking the student to list the items of the Bill of Rights has only one correct answer. An answer testifying that the US was founded by God on Biblical principals can -- and must -- be marked as incorrect because it did not answer the question.
None of these questions asks the student to describe their own deeply held beliefs. None require the student to *agree* -- in whole or in part -- with any of the information outlined in approved curriculum materials. They *do* require the student to demonstrate that assignments have been done. In other words, that the student learned the material in the approved curriculum and can meet state and federal standards for advancement Learning what has been discovered or done by others does not require agreement with those conclusion or actions. After all, this is public school, not a Bible Study.
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| ..... | Apr 19th. at 12:49:04 am EDT
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Katmandu (elba, Alabama) - Email Me
What will they think when a teacher gets into trouble for abashing a student's paper because it contains a religious point of view with which that educator doesn't agree? Or what about when a kid decides ot shirk the assignment and claims "religious objection" as the reason? Or maybe there will be a kid that sees an assignment as a a chance to spread his/her religion.
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| A Very Important Issue | Apr 19th. at 12:44:41 am EDT
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ZonaJewel (Sapulpa, Oklahoma) - Email Me
This is a very important issue right now, thank you for sharing this article.
Blessed Be!
ZJ
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| Let Them Have Their Fun | Apr 17th. at 10:21:36 pm EDT
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MoonCat (White Haven/Gettysburg, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
Let them pass it and see what happens. I give it five years max before a school district gets sued. Let them continue everyone learns in the end.
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| Students & Religion............ | Apr 17th. at 9:13:05 pm EDT
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Thorin (Newaygo, Michigan) - Email Me
Last time I checked, students ARE allowed to express themselves in art, creative writing and anywhere they can express themself. I have worked as a substitute teacher in W. Michigan since 1993, and have no problem when kids draw or write about things relating to religion. However, I do agree that the Christian Right will use this as a way so that ONLY Christian views will be allowed. This idea is like Communism......it's great in theory, but, when you add the Human Element, it falls apart. JMO
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| Everything Looks Good On Paper.. | Apr 17th. at 9:02:03 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
It's only when it's applied that the flaws come out. If they are afraid of opening up a can of worms with this, then by all means this measure should not pass, as it was meant to benefit one religion only. After all, anyone expressing a view other than xtian would be called to the carpet for this. By allowing this measure to pass, religion will soon glut the school so that nothing will get taught. And those expressing other viewpoints will get bullied by those who don't.
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| While Good In Theory... | Apr 17th. at 7:31:56 pm EDT
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Amber (Spencer, Iowa) - Email Me
This would/will be hell to put into practice.
All it will take is a student to have more knowledge than the teacher (and we all know how well that goes over now) and the teacher will make all sorts of claims about the student making up information or just flat out dissagree with the student and refuse to do the research him/herself. I delt with this in high school on an assignment. Granted, I devoted my senior year to p!%%ing off this hypocritical Roman Catholic teacher (and I succeeded) . I researched the history of vampires. Problem One: The idea that Christian items (holy water, cross, etc.) have power over, or a negative affect on vampires. I found information stating that this would work only if the vampire was Christian in life. IOW, if the vampire had been jewish, you'd better get a Star of David. The teacher couldn't/wouldn't comprehend this and believed that the Christian items would work no matter what other religion you were dealing with. Problem Two: I actually found info about vampires and how to kill them in old Catholic doctrine. Instead of looking this up for himself (I had all my sources clearly stated) he said, "That's impossible" and gave a terrible grade.
This legislation would not protect a student in a case like this.
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| I Still Ponder... | Apr 17th. at 3:12:54 pm EDT
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Moonlight Wolf (Bradford, England) - Email Me
At how the origins of the world are taught in US schools. In the UK it's a lot more clear cut. Evolution is taught in the science classroom as it is a theory made from critically looking at how things are formed scientifically.
Intelligent design is left to teachers who teach religious studies and these days a variety of theories are taught as religion in the UK is taught comparitively (at least in Bradford schools)
Similarly in the UK to pass an RS exam you have to look at an issue from an alternative point of view from your own. (ie from an Atheist point of view etc.)
Freedom of religion within schools is a bit of a muddy area I will admit. However in my educational experience if I refused to do an assignment I would be asked why and to be honest 'it's against my religion' wouldn't stand up in a Secondary school.
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| A Couple Of Things | Apr 17th. at 1:14:54 pm EDT
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Young Coyote (W. Hempstead, New York) - Email Me
First of all, like the rest of you, I was a little irked by the "Oh my, what if we let in PAGAN worship!" comment.
With that aside, I don't support this bill at all. I could reiterate the arguments aganist such proposals but it's been done time and time again, just like how fundies attempt this crap time and time again.
What is new about this particular bill is that it'll open up the schools to all sorts of lawsuits that would destroy the school's budget. Every time a student would feel that he or she got a poor grade because they expressed a religious view the school could be brought to court. And there's also the danger of the teacher simply not understanding the religious viewpoint. What if a Wiccan wrote a paper and the teacher knew nothing about Wicca? How does the teacher grade it? What if the teacher honestly thought the student was just making it up?
Like a lot of legislation this bill was written up with very little throught behind it.
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| You Know What?? | Apr 17th. at 1:14:33 pm EDT
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Mysteries Child (Garfield, Arkansas) - Email Me
I'm fed up with people.
I think I might just stop talking about what is right...
...and start talking about what will solve the problem in the most immediate fashion.
Let's ban any open display of religion.
No monuments. No sales of paraphenalia-- no bookstores, no jewelry, no t-shirts, no tote bags, no bumper stickers. No public services. No public gatherings. No structures.
You can believe whatever you want to believe, and worship whatever you want to worship...
...so long as you do it in the privacy of your own home, in completely independent groups no larger than about 30 adult individuals, and no one outside the group ever hears a breath about it.
Pagan, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Shinto, indiginous belief-- all treated the same. You do what you do in privacy, in silence, and in the dark, or we throw your *ss in jail. Any public statement of any kind of belief whatsoever-- including atheism-- is punishable by one year in jail, no more and no less, without trial.
If we don't have to think about our differences, we don't have to fight about them.
End of story.
Everybody happy now??
I hate people.
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| The Only Class | Apr 17th. at 12:52:29 pm EDT
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Mordechai (Edmond, Oklahoma) - Email Me
this law should cover is art class, and very loosely at that. This will lead to schools producing a larger quantity of idiots than it already does. Sorry teacher 1+1 does = Satan because math was created by the Devil. Sorry teacher atoms don't even exist because there is only god. Sorry teach i aint got to know bout no nouns cause fancy talk is for liberals and liberals is the devil and I's a good xian. Sorry teacher but the constitution says we should be a protestant theocracy. And so on and so on and because it could be construed as religious discrimination more and more of those knuckle dragging xians will be allowed into civilization until they've completely cut off funding to all scientific fields of study and the oh so unenlightened, completely false xian protestant bible becomes the law of the land. Anyone who knows the history of the xian (especially protestant) bible knows what i'm talking about.
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| You Know... | Apr 17th. at 11:32:41 am EDT
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Friday Scott (Middleton, Wisconsin) - Email Me
I'm just thinking that if your 'religious freedom' legislation has just the one flaw of *not* favoring one religion over others... there's just a chance someone's heart isn't in the right place about it.
How many times do we hear *that* anyway, "Christians should be free to do this, it's freedom of religion... But what if a Pagan does it? can't have that...."
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| Excellent In Theory | Apr 17th. at 10:33:04 am EDT
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Sy (Atlanta, Georgia) - Email Me
But like Communism, it could be disastrous in practice. The thing about laws is that there's the letter and the spirit. The spirit of the law would say, "If the assignment says 'explain evolution' and you write about creationism, you fail, because you didn't follow the assignment." However, people will still sue if a student fails, and lawsuits are costly no matter who wins.
Furthermore, everyone has biases and that's not going to change, and believe it or not, they feel they have very good reasons for their biases. They don't see themselves as intolerant. You're the same way, whether you admit it or not. I had a teacher ask if anyone was offended if he talked about God? He was going to do it anyway, but he wanted to lay that out to everyone there. He specifically looked at a Muslim friend of mine, the only one who was not outwardly Christian, and asked if it was all right. He said it was. When I made a sort of startled chuckle, the teacher looked at me and explained that no one told him he couldn't practice his religion as he was supposed to. Even then, at 14, I knew that he was right, and at the same time wrong. I loved that teacher, too. But, that meant there were some inherit biases that could put some at a disadvantage. Luckily, he believed in evolution. But what if an Atheist sees a religious viewpoint? Might he or she grade the paper harder? For example, if a person uses a religious argument, then the teacher might say that the student did not have sufficient support for his or her argument. I'm not saying the teacher will do this consciously, but I know that I have given harsher criticism to those who I felt were overly and wrongly religious.
Finally, this does not protect students against a religious backlash from their peers. It merely protects them from the faculty and staff of the school. If a student of a minority religion begins using religious arguments or examples or beliefs in his or her papers, then it leaves him or her open to the mercy of their peers, and let's face it, children and teens are little bastards.
It's excellent in theory, and it is how it should be, but that doesn't mean that that is the way it is or will be.
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| Oh The Horror! | Apr 17th. at 10:18:34 am EDT
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Ursyl (Murrysville, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
"We open ourselves up for bringing in other viewpoints that we might object to, such as pagan worship or things like that. I think we are opening up a can of worms."
Yes, that is exactly correct.
And that is exactly how things are now, even without this law.
I think that this law is unnecessary, but apparently there are far too many schools out there that cannot distinguish between the administration/teachers and the students. The administration/teachers, as the face of government, are prohibited from leading prayer and other religious expression. The students are NOT.
If you want your kids free to express, as they should be, then ours get to be free to express too. As It Should Be.
Get.Over.It.
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