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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 16681
[Schools/Ed]
Date Posted:
11/27/2006
7:05:56 pm EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 8,392
RSS: 19,014
Comments: 23
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Art Student Expelled—For Atheism?
Author: Amy Jenniges Source: Portland Mercury News (OR)
Title: SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF
Bob Averill's classmates at the Art Institute of Portland had finished up their work in a character development class on November 8, and were chatting to pass the time until class was over. The discussion moved toward spirituality. Averill, a Game Art Design student and a devoted atheist—he even runs a blog called Portland Atheist—sidled over and joined the conversation.
It was the last time he'd be in an Art Institute class—within two weeks, he was expelled, less than a year before he'd hoped to graduate.
In the classroom that day, Averill says one young woman was talking about her belief in energy layers and astral beings.
Averill says he wasn't trying to disprove the other student's religious beliefs, but "to convince her not to insist that they were scientifically proven."
The student, apparently offended, complained to the teacher.
Submitted by and Thanks to: David K.
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Community Thoughts: There are 23 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Curiouser And Curiouser | Nov 28th. at 10:42:22 pm EST
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genexs (Newburgh, New York) - Email Me - Web
You know, I admit to a knee-jerk defense of the guy--at first. But after checking around on this, I agree with some of the other posters: there's some deeper issues going on. It's somewhat ironic that the fellow is studying game art design, and the incident occurred in a "character development" class. I guess there'll be no leprechauns populating his gamerverse. Heh.
best,
Gene
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| Sounds Like The Art School Was Out Of Line | Nov 28th. at 9:51:17 pm EST
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Bookworm (Saint Paul, Minnesota) - Email Me
In fact, it sounds like all of the parties involved were out of line.
I agree that it's hard to tell from the article if the guy was really being as aggressive and rude as the administration is making him out to be. I can empathsize with the girl in that I would be offended too if someone butted into my conversation and ridiculed my beliefs, but there are better ways to deal with it than complaining to the teacher, like letting him know that you really don't care about his opinion and refusing to argue with him.
Being rude may be socially offensive, but expelling someone over it and implying that the person is mentally ill is completely out of line.
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| Understanding Religion And Ethics | Nov 28th. at 1:03:24 pm EST
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Terry (Irvington, Virginia) - Email Me
Atheism can be a religion in some forms, at least under US legal tests as found in Supreme Court precedents, EEOC regulations, 3rd Circuit developed detailed legal process to distinguish practices which may or may not be religious for different people over identical outward actions, and a perverse sequence of case law where Bush's remnant as Texas Secretary of State has been sued and lost repeatedly for wrongful denial of tax exempt status to religious organizations whose facial nature was pagan, UU, humanist/secularist, or atheist.
As such, this school's admins were very wrong in their assertions, though this becomes an area of law where it's impossible to distinguish whether a (legal) religion is one or not without doing a detailed review. It also confuses the differences between religious organization, and a person's religious practices entitled to full and equal protections of law.
If as represented an art student (with likely mental health issues of the complainant, not the kid expelled) was asserting leprechauns as scientifically proven natural world realities, any responsible school would have a basic ethics policy to treat that student as an academic fraud or sick person. This is a particularly difficult issue if an arts school tries to prey upon students incompetent to exist in a normal academic environment adhering to standard ethics for intellectual development, but instead tries to fund itself by catering to sometimes psychotic delusions or other emotional disorders which can be directed to useful fantasies for artistic creations. It's very difficult to not host an environment hostile to many mental health disorders, while maintaining values that treat frauds in fields of study where defining standards exist, like science, demand precedence over fantasies and disconnects from the mundane world.
This is also sometimes a conflict between two otherwise overlapping churches, Unity and Unitarian-Universalist. UU's tend to respect spiritualist and faith based values, but distinguish frauds and delusions as unethical or as disorders and disabilities. Unity is hostile towards treatment of frauds and intellectual dishonesty or psychosis as such, and so drives away more educated or intelligent people otherwise interested in overlapping religious perspectives. Fortunately sick Gnostics are generally a minimal threat to others.
To the extent this art school apparently chose to reject honest, free, and open discussion of curriculum related issues, it becomes highly suspect as a legitimate college meeting any serious academic standards. Considering the numbers of notable artists who are known for serious mental health problems, such an intentionally "defective" school may be exactly what works best for some students. However, I'm left wondering if it's this school's admin's and some of its other students who really need the mental health evaluations, and pondering the balance of academic values in catering to traits which may prompt interesting art, but enable the artists remaining broken people who've been coaxed to avoid dealing with difficult personal issues our larger society needs to see addressed to the extent everyone is a potential voter, juror, or otherwise responsible member shaping public policy and common actions.
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| Character Development Class | Nov 28th. at 10:21:03 am EST
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Ahr-Ohn (Bridgeport, Connecticut) - Email Me
He was expelled for actually performing in a Character Development Class. I think it's time he gave up attending such second rate schools. Yale Divinity, or MIT, perhaps even Stanford, might offer an environment where his Character could develop in a more comparable milieu.
Of course, if he wants proof that Leprechauns are real, I'd be happy to introduce him to Lugh, as soon as he can prove Reality.
Arawn
Find More info -- HERE
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| Art Institute Of Portland | Nov 28th. at 9:00:07 am EST
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stalkingwolf (Bullhead City, Arizona) - Email Me
Having some knowledge of that area I would
be willing to bet that this "seat of higher education"
is truely an "Institution". Beyond the possibility of inmates running the assylum there are several
questionable points to be raised.
First the "discussion in question" took place during
class time , on the property of the school, in fact
in a class room. What this means in this case is that
each student paid for the right to be there AND participate in all discussion. It is a public venue.
Second as this was allowed to occur during class time ( it is stated that they were waiting for class to end) the instructor obviously was not in control
of the environment, therefore was neglent in her duties. If as the Dean stated there is a no religious
discussion proviso then the instructor was grossly
neglent.
Third, the person that made the complaint.
As soon as she made the complaint she lost all right
and expectation of anonyminity and privacy. It is
the right of every person in this country to face their accuser. If the administration is to illegally use past
issues against the accused then he also has a right to bring into issue the accusors past issues and conduct.
Fourth the various "deans" actions.
At best they were discriminatory at worst they were
inquisitional. They had made up there minds in advance and did not want the subject clouded with facts, especially not other people that were actually present.
IMHO this young man ( based soley on the facts presented in the article) should be immediatly reinstated and have the balance of his tuition and lab fees paid for by the school.
The Instructor and various deans should be at
the least suspended with out pay for the remainder of the year, then placed on probation
for some time.
Also all information that was given about the accused must also be made available about the accuser.
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| It's Truly Amazing... | Nov 28th. at 8:57:45 am EST
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steward (Jackson, New Jersey) - Email Me - Web
that an art school would expel someone based on their beliefs - even nihilistic beliefs. Personally, I think the school's behavior is a part of a pattern which threatens any deviation from a group-mind.
In that classroom, at that time, where (from how it looks in the article) the students were all expected to remain and could not leave, the group-mind became leprechauns. What if the group-mind in a particular post-lecture session became transubstantiation, or the Great Commission, and a Pagan in the classroom commented on the derivation of some things in Christianity from Paganism? It looks to me like - based on the precedent in the article, and keeping in mind that the general news media tends not to have all its "facts" straight - that that hypothetical Pagan would be expelled as well.
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| I Had A Similar Experience... | Nov 28th. at 6:38:14 am EST
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NightLad (Toronto, Ontario) - Email Me
… back in high school. I was quietly discussing spiritual matters with a friend over lunch in the quad when she mentioned something about faeries, so we started talking about various folklores. Some guy whom I’d never met had apparently been listening and suddenly interrupted us. “You believe in Faeries? That’s so stupid! Prove they exist!” He went on to demand that I “prove” all kinds of things, including the basis of my spirituality.
How does one “prove” the innermost knowledge of their connection to the Divine? If anybody knows, feel free to email me.
As it was, I ignored him. For the most part. Okay, I might have made a comment to the effect of, “First, ‘prove’ that Angels exist.” ;-)
However, judging from this article, it seems that the Atheist-individual has a mouth on him, a sour attitude, and a rather abrasive personality. None of these things warrant being expelled on their own, but combined over time (as they seem to have been) ; they make for a justifiable reason when pushed too far.
It sounds like his outburst to the young lady was just the straw that broke the camels back. Maybe he should take up the schools suggestion of seeking psychiatric help. (Unless, of course, he doesn’t believe in that either.) hehe
“Seeing isn’t believing, believing is seeing.” – The Santa Clause
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| ... | Nov 28th. at 5:23:13 am EST
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
This reminds me of the "Kiss Hank's Ass" diatribe.
Find More info -- HERE
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| In Kindergarten, | Nov 28th. at 4:20:49 am EST
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Jenna (Cary, North Carolina) - Email Me
I got into big trouble for telling the other children that there was no such thing as Santa. Even though I was completely correct, the myth had to be preserved at all cost. That sounds like what's happening here. If this girl wishes to go about claiming that she feels and knows these enities (unless she wishes to get locked away in an asylum) she had better come up with the slightest bit of evidence. We all know the saying : extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. She could had said that she was open to the idea, but to claim that this is something she believes she should expect to have to defend such beliefs. As for the atheist, many atheists take great delight in trying to crumble the faith of others because they see blind faith in anything to be superstitious nonsense. Being a bit of a pest shouldn't get one expelled. At the most, the teacher should had told the kids to wait until after school to discuss said beliefs and moved on with the classe. I can't believe that this teen's education and possible career opportunites might be jeopardised because this girl couldn't take having her imaginary friends questioned.
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| I Can Picture It Now... | Nov 28th. at 1:05:21 am EST
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Pinky McFatfat, High Shamrock Shake (Dublin) (Northumberland, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
...knowing how I am, I would have demanded she conjure an astral being right on the spot. Same way if she was yammering on about Jesus, I would have asked her to go into a prolonged bout of glossolalia. I would have been so expelled.
Then again, if he were blabbering about Athiesism, I would have come up with something nasty for him. And got expelled for that.
Am I the only person who was raised to think that going off in public about ANY religion is rude? When you aren't in some kind of 'church', a class that involves religion, or an actual discussion of religion...keep it to yourself. I don't make others endure my thoughts on the subject, and I expect the same courtesy.
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| Read Between The Lines | Nov 27th. at 11:47:19 pm EST
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Arcana (Shingletown, California) - Email Me
He was not expelled for being an Atheist, but the way his attitude is demeaning and aggressive to others. She did not start the conversation, he went to talk to her about it. And most importantly, THIS WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME he was complained against for his attitude towards others, and the other complaints were from teachers.
This is not about religion or religious or nonreligious discrimination in a school, but how the young man treats others in an offensive way.
What is a shame that people scream "DISCRIMINATION!" when they caused their own problems by their own actions. This young man needs to learn to take responsibility for his actions and find out what he is doing wrong that makes him so offensive to others that he is reported to the dean in the first place, instead of using discrimination as an excuse. Because that is clearly what he is doing.
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| Oh For The Love Of... | Nov 27th. at 10:10:58 pm EST
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Amtehuti (Queens, Florida) - Email Me
What's next? A kid suspended for not believing in Santa Clause?
He has the right to say whatever he wants about spirituality. It's called "freedom of expression". He even apologized but, of course, that wasn't enough...
Someone should slap the girl and tell her to grow up.
Good wishes to the young man, as well.
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| Sad | Nov 27th. at 9:02:48 pm EST
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genexs (Newburgh, New York) - Email Me - Web
What idiocy! And from Portland! This man sure deserves our support.
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| Interesting... | Nov 27th. at 8:20:39 pm EST
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Erie (Davis, California) - Email Me
The actions of the school seem a little overboard and, quite frankly, smack of double jeopardy (in terms of him being punished again for a complaint already resolved) among other serious issues. There's not much else I can say beyond that, since we are only getting information from the two parties involved (undoubtedly biased in each party's favor) and lack of real evidence of what was said in those conversations.
Whatever is the truth here, it seems that no one at that school can properly communicate or debate an issue.
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| One Insult After Another. | Nov 27th. at 7:46:38 pm EST
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
The key sentence here seems to be- he was not "part of a group of protected people". One of the reasons it was easy to expel him. If there was real fairness, she should have joined him- as she was discussing spirituality and astral beings in school, in the argument that began this situation.
Since when does anyone need protection in a country that supposedly guarantees religious freedom for all concerned? While I am all for the girl to be able to come forward to discuss her spritual matters in the open, I still feel that it was not right to expel him for disagreeing with her- or with anyone else- and I would find it highly insulting that the only way I could get back in was to take a psychiactric exam.
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