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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 19593
[Legal]
Date Posted:
4/16/2008
10:35:23 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 7,141
RSS: 19,777
Comments: 17
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Was Discharge Based On Religion Or Attendance?
Author: Business & Legal Reports Source: Business & Legal Reports
Title: WAS DISCHARGE BASED ON RELIGION OR ATTENDANCE?
May managers ever comment on an employee's religious jewelry? A federal court sitting in Oregon recently considered that question.
What happened. Starbucks hired a barista at its Cornelius [Oregon] store in March 2004. During her first 3 months, she received four corrective action notices about attendance. After the fourth, she was put on a corrective action plan, but she completed it and was transferred to Starbucks' Hillsboro store in August 2004. At Hillsboro, she began to wear a necklace of a Wiccan symbol. (Wicca is an ancient, earth-centered religion.) Two store managers hinted that it was offensive and detrimental to her employment, and guessed that customers might mistake her for a Satan worshipper.
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Community Thoughts: There are 17 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Ponder This... | Apr 19th. at 1:21:39 am EDT
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Katmandu (elba, Alabama) - Email Me
Was religion an excuse to force her out by saying customers were offended? Or did her bad attendance record already piss off her bosses who then looked poorly upon her Pentacle when she decided to wear it?
Me? I made sure I was on good terms with my bosses and co-workers before I started wearing my stuff openly.
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| Life Is Fair, It's People Who Aren't Always. | Apr 17th. at 8:47:18 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
I agree wholeheartedly that it does happen. The harasser doesn't have to be a boss, but another employee. If complainants are allowed to be anonymous, and in some cases, they are, then it is hard to pinpoint harassment for that reason, but it doesn't make it any less debilitating, or infuriating to encounter. Sometimes an employee can do everything they are supposed to, and still be fired for something totally bogus because someone has decided to dislike them for whatever reason.
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| It Happens | Apr 17th. at 10:02:14 am EDT
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Lea (Cedar Park, Texas) - Email Me
I had a doctor once who wouldn't come near me because I wear my pentacle in the open. He never came within 3 feet of me. It was disheartening to say the least.
I know it happens and it is wrong and yet, how is it that others can show their faith and have no problems. I believe that if we are unable to show ours and keep our jobs then they too should leave theirs at home.
I recently quit a part time job where I wore my pentacle necklace and ring every day. As I am in Texas, co workers mistook them for the Seal of Texas, which is a pentacle. I felt like a liar every time I did not correct them. There were customers who would eye my necklace with suspicion but I oozed kindness and they usually overlooked it. Unlike the one man who wouldn't let me speak to his daughter nor go anywhere near her.
This is what we are fighting, the ignorance and fear of brainwashing. This young lady stood up for herself and her faith, so should we all. Everyone should come out of the broom closet and proudly let others know who we are, I do it but I do it with limits. I do not want to endanger my children and where we live it is possible. After being attacked recently and beaten because of it, I understand why many of us do not. I can not have it happen to my babies, so I have backed off slightly. A severe concussion will do that to you.
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| I Can Believe It! | Apr 17th. at 1:33:33 am EDT
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Hadriana (Rome, Georgia) - Email Me
My former boss used to talk openly how they had an employee there that 'thought she was a witch - a real kook, who'd wear pentagrams." He bragged about firing her, and the rest of the department just laughed. I sat there for 2 years with my mouth shut listening to that. I thought I was the only one. Turns out - after I quit - I found out that our 14 person department also had another pagan there - a wiccan, who was also scared and keeping her mouth shut too. We just happened to meet up one day at the Ren festival and talked. Religious persecution of pagans is VERY real. I have no reason to doubt it.
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| This Happens........ | Apr 16th. at 10:52:27 pm EDT
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Thorin (Newaygo, Michigan) - Email Me
This sort of thing happens a lot.....more than people realise. I lost a few school districts as a substitute teacher over wearing my Thor Hammer necklace, which students complained.....and parents.....about.
The one flaw I see in this article is that Wicca is NOT an ancient religion, and was a mistake in the writing......other than that, it's well-written.
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| Dumb Managers. | Apr 16th. at 8:56:08 pm EDT
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Lora (Leominster, Massachusetts) - Email Me
Dumb, dumb, dumb. Stupid on both sides.
Stupid on employee's side: If someone doesn't like you for whatever reason or for no reason at all, they will look for a reason to fire you, including an unfair one, and they will cook up any scheme to get rid of you no matter how petty and losery. They can not like you because you aren't a member of their bridge club, ferthaluvvagawd, and they will cook up a reason to fire you. If you don't get along with just ONE of your co-workers, take it as notice that you had better perform your job to the utmost perfection. Sure, it's illegal and not economically sound for the business either, and all the rules of Capitalism say that such shoddily-run enterprises will go the way of the dinosaur. It still happens, though. Welcome to the working world, which is not fair.
Stupid on manager's side: Well, dumbarse, now you know why you're supposed to hire for personality fit. You also know why you're supposed to get these things in writing and build up a more solid case for firing someone, and why we have an HR manual, which you clearly have not read. If I was your senior boss, you'd be canned yourself for dragging our butts into court and making such a publicity mess.
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| The Problem With Proving Discrimination | Apr 16th. at 7:30:57 pm EDT
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booley (Saint Louis, Missouri) - Email Me
Few people have perfect records. especially in this day and age when companies can and do write you up for being a minute late on the clock.
So when discrimination does happen, the company can and will use any mistake made in the past against the employee. and only a fool doesn't realize this. So a lot of people put up with bad work situations because they already know what reporting would do. Get them fired an that's it.
I used to work at a TV station with a Christian fundementalist as my immediate boss (and that's not an insult. that's how he described himself) Really nice guy but when he saw or heard stuff that went against his religious beliefs, he could turn ugly and scary at the same time.
He said stuff about how the the public schools were teaching Wicca because they taught about environmentalism. and how things would get better when Christians took over the country. He was always very vocal about how Liberals were destroying America.
So here am I , a Liberal Pagan, listening to all of this. And not once did I call him on it.
Because when I had started I had made blunders. I was a less ten model employee. And I knew if I did complain or even mention it, all that would happen is me getting fired and having no way to support myself.
So maybe that's why I am willing to give this women the benefit of the doubt more then starbucks.
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| More Info | Apr 16th. at 6:06:10 pm EDT
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Rev. Jeanene Hammers (Hillsboro, Oregon) - Email Me
I live in Hillsboro, OR, and our local news has some different/additional information.
1) another employee backed up her statement that she had given the manager notice of her medical appointment;
2) of the times she was "late", one was for clocking in one minute late; and
3) other employees under that manager had more late notices and more absences than she did, yet were not terminated.
That information came from an interview with another "anonymous" employee.
Is that information true? I do not know. However, it does add a different dimension to the case.
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| ... | Apr 16th. at 6:02:24 pm EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
My pentacle is the Celtic border with a moonstone in its center. Most people don't even notice the fact that its a pentacle, but I do live in NYC. In most other places in the US, wearing a pentacle (even if it's less than a half-inch in diameter) can be tantamount to an invitation to be harassed. Whether or not you care to admit it, this type of harassment is real. If you don't believe me, ask the Pagans in the military over in Iraq.
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| I Agree That | Apr 16th. at 5:29:10 pm EDT
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Aritimi Morgana (RotterdamJct/Schdy/Scotia, New York) - Email Me
both sides goofed up, but I can't help being a little suspicious about the woman. I think she's just excusing her laziness with the convenient excuse of 'oh, religious discrimination, I'm being persecuted because I'm Wiccan'. Sure, the whole playing victim routine has worked great for fundies getting their dogma forced into places, but i think as pagans we should not lower ourselves to the level of whiny brat.
If the pentacle in question was 5 inches diameter and encrusted with rhinestones and she insisted on waving it in everyone's face, I would be immensely annoyed and I consider myself pagan. That's just downright obnoxious. Don't use your religion to cover for moronic behavior; it denigrates the beliefs you presume to claim and makes everyone else who also follows such beliefs look bad.
I have been extremely lucky to be able to wear my pentacles to work without harrassment; many of them are very discreet and worked into a larger design. The only harrassment i do get is from family, so I either hide it under my shirt or take it off. But really, is wearing a pentacle so much about showing off that you're a pagan or expressing your faith? That's the greater lesson here. Anyone can wear one, but if you want to be an idiot while wearing one, that's your choice too. And don't get mad if people start getting on your case; you only brought it on yourself by being stupid, not because of beliefs.
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| Discharge | Apr 16th. at 2:05:36 pm EDT
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Jskelly (Ashland, Virginia) - Email Me
My husband is a businessman, and my sister in human resources. Though in our state, anyone can be fired for almost any reason , ANY business that does not put all personnel actions, especially disciplinary actions in writing is very, very foolish.
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| A Good Start.-- But.. | Apr 16th. at 12:59:13 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
Companies should be forced to show the work records in order to prove -or disprove a charge of discrimination toward any employee. up until now, it has always been the employee that had borne the brunt of proof-which has always been difficult-if not impossible to prove.
Any discrepencies could come out in the case, if the employee was satisfactory before and this just came out recently. Unfortunately, it'll only make those seeking to discrimate much more clever than they needed to be in the past.
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| To Me..... | Apr 16th. at 12:53:16 pm EDT
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Rev. Ryan Adams (SWC) (Fort Polk, Louisiana) - Email Me
It sounds like muddy water, though I am inclined to agree with the termination based on what I have read thus far. Though I am not one of those people who see discrimination everywhere, I do accept the fact that there are people out there who don't like us because of our religion. My response to this reality in the workplace is to give no reason to be called into question. That means following the rules. I'm like this in all aspects of my life. I had a supervisor once tell me that the majority of most peoples problems stem from them not doing 2 things:
Be at the right place at the right time
Do what your supposed to do
I have passed this advice on to everyone who has ever worked for me and I expected each of them to follow it. When you get down to it, that man was right: most problems come from people being somewhere they are not supposed to be, not being somewhere when they are supposed to be, or doing something they are not supposed to be doing.
To return to this story, had the girl been at work when she was supposed to be there, she would not have been fired. Furthermore, the managers herrassing her about her jewelry (which constitutes them doing something they are not supposed to be doing) would have ended with their reprimands, not her termination.
Bottom line- both parties are wrong for the same reason.
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| Nicely Done. | Apr 16th. at 12:50:50 pm EDT
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Phledge (Henderson, Nevada) - Email Me
Except for the definition of Wicca as "ancient," this article seemed to be completely objective and an appropriate description of the legal ramifications of discrimination. Yay!
PS--I don't think Jesus has to die in order for us to flourish and be happy; just that his followers need to stop judging. *shrug*
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