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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 21219
[Legal]
Date Posted:
10/5/2009
4:14:38 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 3,024
RSS: 15,213
Comments: 25
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Man Sues Over Alleged Death Prayers
Author: UPI Source: UPI
Title: MAN SUES OVER ALLEGED DEATH PRAYERS
An Air Force Academy alumnus who has denounced Christian proselytizing in the armed forces says he is suing a Dallas group for praying that he will die.
Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, told Monday's Dallas Morning News he has filed suit against Gordon Klingenschmitt, a former U.S. Navy chaplain, and Jim Ammerman, the founder of the Chaplaincy of Full Gospel Churches.
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Community Thoughts: There are 25 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Apparently... | Oct 6th. at 7:47:44 pm EDT
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Corax (Glendale, Arizona) - Email Me
I do believe that those who do not handle fundyanity or any of the other monotheistic religions with kid gloves are still entitled to have their opinions respected. Mr. Weinstein certainly has every right in the world to be upset for having fundyism shoved down his throat, as does every non-fundy, whether a military member or not.
And, I'll say it again, what these fundys are doing is CURSING Mr. Weinstein, and they should do themselves a favor and quit now because I'm sure they wouldn't want to endure the same things happening to them.
Cursing someone without provocation is like starting a street fight without provocation; you just might be the one who gets his a$$ kicked!
Clearly, fundys aren't interested in being fair about the religious/cultural war raging in this country. They are determined to destroy everyone who won't submit to their fascist religion, even if they have to violate every one of their commandments to do it!
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| Talk About 'Coincidence...' | Oct 6th. at 6:24:09 pm EDT
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Dana Corby (Anderson Island, Washington) - Email Me
So I go out to my Facebook page, and one of my friends has posted a link to an article on the Huffington post: It seems that the Bible is too liberal for some of the extreme right wing, and they're going to edit and re-translate the supposed 'inerrant word of god' to remove the more liberal passages -- you know, the stuff about sharing and loving your neighbor and especially the one where Jesus says "it is easier for a camel to pass through the needle's eye than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.'
Perhaps it's no coincindence that all this material exposing the true colors of these sociopathic dictaor wanna-be's is coimng out now.
Find More info -- HERE
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| Strange Brew | Oct 6th. at 4:10:34 pm EDT
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R. Cicero (Seattle, Washington) - Email Me
What comes out of our freethinking pagan hearts is, admittedly, sometimes a strong and bitter reaction, but that is most often summoned by true cases of the crassest forms of repression in our very faces.
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| That's Right.... | Oct 6th. at 3:47:51 pm EDT
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morning glory (jackson, Mississippi) - Email Me
My personal experience with being Pagan in the military wasn't pretty. I was stationed in a remote part of the world for 6 months (Diego Garcia) the whole island was a military base, no civilian parts to it.
One Summer Solstice I was off on my own praying in a circle with a small alter set-up (minus my athame) , nothing threatening on it, and was taken by MPs into custody then dragged before my Captain. I requested a chaplain of any faith, because there were none of Pagan faith to be found. The Mps had kicked my alter over, spit into my chalice and told me I was lucky they couldn't do what they wanted to with my "disgusting Satan loving witch ass".
The Chaplain got there and did nothing for me, didn't even listen.
By the time everything was cleared up, I was the one who guilty without cause. I did 45 days of EMI and 45 days of reduced pay. My life in that squadron became miserable, I was constantly bombarded with bibles being left on my doorstep, religious tracts slipped into my gear, under my door....
I hope the man wins his lawsuit.
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| To This I Pay A Tithing | Oct 6th. at 3:43:51 pm EDT
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R. Cicero (Seattle, Washington) - Email Me
I annually send small checks to organizations that tend to take on such cases. Outside of that, I am very careful where I buy things, due to what it may inadvertently support, and of course I vote carefully. I'm afraid Obama is not nearly close to what I HOPED he could be. More of a sick little joke, but I suppose he's still light years ahead of most any Republican option. That, I might add, would most likely privately cheelead these very abuses in the military that are rather well-publicized, for those that can actually read and actually care.
Now I know the economy is tough, and you may be a virtuous warrior spirit. But I still openly encourage all pagans and witches and even any person of conscience to avoid enlistment, and to exit the service as quickly as possible (if currently enlisted) . The U.S. Armed Services are full of monster both large and small, and do the bidding of same. They have most recently been involved in routine illegal, sovereign violations that have beckoned the deaths of tens of thousands, including some by torture. To break bread with them and serve them is to work with the worst kind of devil, and we all damn well know it.
It is an all-volunteer service. It does not have my support under this or any other administration. Come home.
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| Let's NOT Be Reasonable! | Oct 6th. at 2:13:23 pm EDT
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Dana Corby (Anderson Island, Washington) - Email Me
Mr. Weinstein may well win his case, but he won't stop Klingenschmitt and Ammerman. The Christian radical right believes that they are not obligated to obey laws which contradict their 'Christian duty,' by which they mean 'desire to run rough-shod over everybody else.'
A few years ago I posted an article about Christian 'stealth' candidates and the rise of Dominionism. It excited almost no interest, probably because it was just too bizarrely un-American to believe.
Well, I just read Chris Hedges' best-seller "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America." It not only supports everything I said, it goes terrifyingly beyond it.
Hedges is a war correspondent and a devout Christian, but he's a Presbyterian, not one of these radical Fundamentalist tyrants. Because of his Christian 'credentials' he has been able to attend many of the closed-door events, rallys, and workshops put on by the extreme right-wing, and he lays it all out in this book.
One of the points he makes, many times, is that there is no point in being reasonable with people who have willingly traded the ability -- and right! -- to reason for the false promises of safety offered by the radical church. Anything we say that contradicts what they have been taught to believe is 'biblical' (and most of it isn't) is construed as a lie and a trap. We cannot win in any sort of debate with them -- and by 'we' I mean not just Pagans but all believers in a free, egalitarian and just society.
We must fight these people if we're not to wind up slaves -- or worse -- in our own country. And we must support everyone else who fights them, even if we'd never have a thing to say to them otherwise. The Christo-fascists do not -- yet -- outnumber the rest of the populace, but they DO outnumber each individual faction opposing them. We can band together and fight for our lives, or we can keep acting 'reasonable' and let them pick us off one finge-group at a time.
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| The Killing Psalm | Oct 6th. at 12:06:10 pm EDT
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Maeven (Los Angeles, California) - Email Me
The minister is likely using Psalm 109 (see link below) to curse this man. In Voodou it's referred to as the "Killing Psalm". It is intended to kill an adversary and destroy their lineage. In Voodou practices it is VERY effective. Notice the minister's only reply is "I an just quoting scripture." He doesn't deny the allegations or directly lie about what he's doing. And he feels completely justified because he thinks he's on the only team that matters.
I believe the issue this man has is that he is being persecuted, spiritually and politically attacked by refusing to conform to their religious standard. His experience is that he is fighting for his own religious freedom, and possibly his life and his children's lives. It sounds like he deeply believes in the power this church has in it's prayers, and while that could prove to make him more susceptible, he is still under spiritual attack and that is always a difficult thing. If we believe in the power of words in a spell, and for those of us who have survived a witch war or two, we need to consider the real use of Psalms as spells used millions of times over thousands of years and all the energy behind them. Just because it comes from a religion we may not recognize doesn't mean there's not energy there to have to contend with.
There are a tremendous number of pagans with chronic financial, health and life issues. There are also a large number of other churches who continuously wish harm to other faiths. I'm just saying, it doesn't hurt to do cleansings and hex-breaking spells on a regular basis as well as inner work to clear out our own baggage.
There might be a very real concern for him here. His entire life is certainly under attack. I think going public is a desperate attempt to shed light on what they are doing in order to try to diffuse their energy or stop it. I also think he needs some serious spiritual assistance and intervention to help him through this.
What we pagans need to be aware of, is this case is only a breath away from court cases against witchcraft. We need to watch this carefully. If death prayers ever get anywhere, it's a guarantee death spells will be next, and that will open a whole new can of worms for all of us. Luckily, it's not likely to go anywhere, but times can change sometimes suddenly.
I'd like to ask all of us to send this man spiritual energy to help shield and protect him, and to make this whole court business disappear into the shadows. Everyone deserves religious freedom.
Find More info -- HERE
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| OK | Oct 6th. at 10:08:06 am EDT
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Orion 6Xray (Park City, Kentucky) - Email Me
So this guy is filing a law suit that may not win. He is Jewish and the curses these people are using on him are old testament. So mental anguish could be concluded.
[Web LINK]
And for someone who used to be councel for the Regan Administration, I think he knows what he is doing.
The lawsuits he has filed against the DOD get swept under the rug and forgotten about, while the encroachment of the specific sect of Christianity is made public on military bases around the country. Funded by your tax dollars.
Here is a story little picked up by the Main Stream Media.
Mega-Churches being built on Military Bases.
"Among the most expensive and extravagant of these mega-church military chapel projects are two of those requested by members of the Family. One, requested by John Carter for Fort Hood, already received $17,500,000 in last year's Defense Authorization Act, and this year's House bill adds an $8,500,000 addition to the project, for a total of $26,000,000. The other is a $14,400,000 mega-church for Fort Campbell, already approved in both the House and Senate versions of this year's bill."
Read more at: [Web LINK]
Oh but let us squable about the fact this guy has been attacked at home before by nonthinking people puppeteered by the so called good book and its mouth peices like Klingenschmitt.
And for those of you with short memories, Ft. Hood was the post that the first and last open military circle for Pagans was held until Bob Barr lead the crusade to shut it down. Now most Pagans have to practice behind close doors unless you have a good chaplin or a good command enviroment, which are getting fewer and far between.
This isnt about the Christians in the military, most the people who have to use Mikey's services are Christian themself, they just arnt christian enough for those who have taken control of the command structure.
But hey we shouldnt be worried bout this and go on with our lives, there is no historical presidence to show that when Christianity takes control of a military order bad things happen not only to people in other lands but the citezenry of which that military was supposed to protect....right?
Sgt. Jeffery Humphrey (Honorably Discharged)
U.S. Army Infantry 1998-2005
Samarra Iraq 2004-2005
Purple Heart Recipiant
P.S. You guys should really look up the war planners making War plans for Iraq, Afgahnastan and Iran based on the book of Revelations. The power point peices corrilating Iraq with the return of Jesus. and the Strike orders made based on the battle of Meggido and the war between Gog and Magog. All from your top military leaders.
Read and find out what they say about you, the lost and depraved minions of Satan occupying "THIER" country.
Corrilate that with what has been said in the other article about the Cross on Navajoe National Park, which wasnt a war memorial to begin with, was just switched to it to cover thier A$$E$. The militarized police at the G-20, and then realize how much of our fingernails we are hanging on by.
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| Does Anyone Else Notice... | Oct 6th. at 8:52:05 am EDT
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Hoolet (Columbia, South Carolina) - Email Me
...the contradiction here? He heads a group claiming to advocate religious freedom, yet he wants to sue these people over the way they are practicing their religion...ie, by praying for his demise. As long as they do not physically harm him, why worry what they are asking their imaginary deity to do? After I became Pagan, I had over a dozen Christians tell me they were praying for disaster to befall me. I just chuckled at it, knowing nothing was going to happen.
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| Frivolous | Oct 6th. at 8:17:05 am EDT
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Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
Unlike some other people here, I don't think this is a good way to do things. I think "frivolous" lawsuits disrupt our legal system and the lives of people they touch. When you know you don't have a case, you don't file one. If you wish to protest and make public the actions of other people, you go to the press not court..
What Christians believe and what Christians pray for is their own business. Who cares? Right here on Witchvox (at least several times a month) I see an invocation in text asking for some sort of horror or misery to be visited upon Christians. What would happen if the site got sued everytime it comes up? For that matter, I've gotten "hate" mail from other people on Witchvox which threatens me with all sorts of supernatural retribution simply for calling people on the hypocrisy of Christian-bashing.
You don't see me dialing my lawyer because some lunatic is threatening to kill me with magic. When you put yourself on stage (as both this gentleman and I have done) you are going to become a target of critics. We become public or semi-public figures. Some people will ignore us. Some people will sing our praises. Some people will stick pins in poppets. Growns ups understand this simple truth. Abusing the legal system to make a personal point (which other people will have to pay for) is not the appropriate response.
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| WHAT'S OUR OLD SAYING?? | Oct 6th. at 5:46:05 am EDT
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Whitewolf (Schenectady, New York) - Email Me
"What you do comes back to thee, three times three times three?" Karma can be a bee-yotch....
Love to all
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| ... | Oct 6th. at 4:01:11 am EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
I should add on to what I stated earlier.
The military has one of the most open policies when it comes to religion, but that's like saying that the United Arab Emirates has an open policy when it comes to religion. Taken into context, the military IN PRACTICE turns a blind eye to preachers on base and really could not care less when it comes to fundies hazing Pagans on or off duty. If you, the reader, think otherwise, you apparently haven't been in the military in the past 10 years (I got out of the Slavy...err, Navy 9 years ago) or you think the world runs on peace, love, and happiness and any Pagan who says otherwise is just a "mean pooopyhead."
It's no secret that I have zero love for the xians, and it's not an "ax to grind," children. I have a very good reason for all of my actions. I just don't post comments that make me seem like I suffer from a societal form of Stockholm Syndrome.
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| Take A Minute And BREATHE | Oct 6th. at 3:41:06 am EDT
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nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me
The article is about one man's problems with one group "praying" for his death, due to his trying to bring to Public attention how prevalent Christian proselytizing is in the U.S. Air Force Academy, and in the U.S. Military in general. Does the U.S. Air Force Academy "push" Christianity? Yes, it does. Do I think it is right to do so? No, I do not -- but the USAF Academy has had its traditions for as long as it has been "in business", and we all know how difficult it can be to get just one seemingly insignificant tradition changed (or removed) once it has become a part of the Institution. That all Cadets be a member of some sort of church has been an unofficial, unwritten tradition for a very long time...but being a member of a Christian church has not been a requirement for more than 10 years (likely many more, I'll have to look that up) . Based on my own experience, however, I don't think the problem addressed by the article is quite as wide-spread as most people here believe.
When I was an Enlisted person in the USAF, back in the 1980's, Christianity was the most "popular" religious choice, but it was not pushed on anyone that I knew of. Matter of fact, we -- the members of my squadron/unit and myself -- were always openly making fun of the "Holy Rollers" on the Base. Even most of the Commissioned Officers (the majority Academy graduates) looked "down" on those "Holy Rollers" in their units (the ones who did not were also "Holy Rollers", but they did NOT push their religious beliefs on everyone else) . Attending church services was never a requirement for anyone, "unofficially" or otherwise. This was the norm at all four of the bases I was stationed at.
One of my cousins is a Chaplain's Assistant in the U.S. Army, has been for the past 9 years (at least) , and he has never been involved in, been around, nor heard of any instance of overt proselytizing -- not even by "his" Chaplain. I trust what he says, because he does not proselytize at all; he is as put off by it as y'all are.
Prayers at the opening of a Military event? It's another long-entrenched, Institutionalized tradition. You are not required to join in. Just be respectful, and show the Fundies how they are supposed to behave. Maybe they'll shame themselves into actually being what they require of everyone else....more likely, though, they'll just prove how ugly they really are.
In my opinion, anyone who claims that the entire U.S. Military actively pushes religion -- specifically ONLY Christianity -- on its members has either never served, or they have an axe to grind with certain members of the Military who happen to be very religious Christians.
There are plenty of non-military Intelligentsia with redneck attitudes -- even here on the 'Vox. It's like a country boy who has never been in the city claiming that the majority of city-folk are criminals because crime is so prevalent in the city he has never once set foot in....
--nasionnaich
When all you hear about is Strife and Violence, it is no surprise that Strife and Violence are found everywhere you look. It is the same with religious proselytizing -- no matter which religion is doing the proselytizing.
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| ... | Oct 5th. at 9:51:42 pm EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
This IS military-wide. Go to YouTube and look at the video from "Shadow Guy Person Man" about why people shouldn't join the military.
The evidence is out there. The xians are not "friendly" towards us. If they could revert to their "convert or kill" practices that were outlawed when the Deist Founding Fathers came up with the constitution, they would in a heartbeat. And there's more of them out there than islamic fundies.
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| Christians Do Have A Verse On Karma | Oct 5th. at 9:12:38 pm EDT
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Emerald Tiger (Jamestown, North Dakota) - Email Me
I agree that what is dished out should be taken.
Most Christians know the verse that states that your sins will find you out and that you will pay for them. Their book of teaching also states that by their works they shall be known. Then they wonder why they have such a "bad" rep with some people, well "HEEEEEELLLOOOOO"
They forget that it is a two way street so their own attempts will come back to them. Although, according to their cosmology, at their last judgement. They will be judged by the same harsh standards by which they judge others.
So one way or another, their own actions will come back to get them.
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