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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 18531
[Pagan]
Date Posted:
9/14/2007
9:34:31 pm EDT
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Views: 5,132
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Comments: 12
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Pagans Fight Stigma With Pride Day
Author: Star Traylor Source: The Winchester Star (VA)
Title: PAGANS FIGHT STIGMA WITH PRIDE DAY
People who practice pagan religions are familiar with a number of misconceptions about their faith.
Some think they worship the devil; others say pagans are godless people.
But none of that is true, said two area residents who are practicing pagans.
Tom Vandeberg and Teresa Frederick, both of Stephens City, are coordinating Northern Shenandoah Pagan Pride Day 2007, an event that aims to educate the public about pagan beliefs and eradicate the stigma surrounding religions such as Wicca, Asatru and Druidry.
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Community Thoughts: There are 12 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Godless? | Sep 17th. at 7:43:07 pm EDT
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Lorelei (Fort Lauderdale, Florida) - Email Me
We have more gods than anyone!!!
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| I Have To Agree | Sep 17th. at 12:42:14 pm EDT
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Lady-hearted Mojo (Irving, Texas) - Email Me
I've been to a number of Pagan Pride Days and I don't mind the vendors, although, rarely do I buy anything.
However, over and over I fail to see how PPDs are educating anyone outside of Paganism. Most people who come to a PPD event are either some flavor of Pagan already or are interested in the path and are taking their first baby-steps so they are open to more information. It's great that a PPD can educate these types of people, but as far as peope who either aren't Pagan or have no interest in Paganism....forget it. These types of people don't come to be enlightened about what Paganism is or isn't they come to protest our very existance and they aren't open to mutual dialogue or developing tolerance. Any attempt by a Pagan to open a dialogue results in the initiator being shouted-down by God's warriors. I've seen this over and over and over. Those PPD events that do manage to educate that rare someone or opening a real dialogue are few and far between. If anyone is truly interested in opening a dialogue so that non-Pagans get a better idea of what Paganism is then join your local Interfaith Group or help develop one. Interfaith groups accomplish far more thoughout the year in this area than a PPD held once a year ever could.
I will never say that a PPD is a waste or time and effort, but I also have realistic expectations of what they can and can't accomplish.
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| An Honest Buck | Sep 16th. at 9:00:58 am EDT
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Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
I didn't expect my comments to be popular on this issue. However, I'm going to throw my thoughts into sharp relief. I have stated that I don't think Pagan Pride days are anything more than proselytizing, and that loading them up with vendors weakens any good message one might me be trying to send. I still believe that. I think the evidence supports it. I have seen the following, many time:
1. Christians having gatherings wherein they do good works, tell about their personal experiences in Christ, make games and activities available for the kiddies, and generally explain their beliefs and what they are about. In effect, they have little christian carnivals, not unlike Pagan Pride Days.
*The responce from under the Pagan umbrella tends to be, "those damn Christians and all their prosyletizing!" Myself, I fail to see the difference.
2. I see those as pro-Pagan Pride Days out there trying to mince words and say we are just trying to EDUCATE people, not proselytize. There is a difference.
*Really? What is our intent? I've been to MANY such events over the years. I've seen many so-called education sessions. It sounded to me like people are going out of their way to talk about their personal beliefs, how it changed their lives, who they think it will change the lives of others, how much better the world would be if these behaviors were followed, and so on. A rose by any other name would still smell a sweet. A cowpie with great presentation is still a big stinking pile. Many Christians call it "educating" the unbeliever about Christ too. Does that mean they aren't proselytizing?
3. Most of the Pagan Pride Days (or similiar events) I have attended were dominated by vendors. I'd have to say the vendors, or shows which advertised for the vendors made up better than 80% of the entertainment. This is not unlike a Renfair which is really a glorified shopping center of neat stuff. Sure there are shows as a Renfair, but the entire complex is made up of a maze of shops and eateries which you must wind through to find the shows. Clearly, if one calculates the "purpose" strictly by the amount of time, space, and labor put into it, the vendors are the reason for the event as far as the organizers are concerned. Why should I feel any different about Pagan Pride Days?
All in all, we can't have it both ways. If we want to educate people, I would have to ask the question of WHY? We don't like it when Christians feel the need to educate us. Wouldn't people who are truly interested seek out the knowledge on their own? How "honest" are we being in setting up events for the purpose educating people when most of the energy goes into selling them trinkets? Or more to the point, why is it a stationary, carnival-like atmosphere in the first place? Wouldn't a parade, like a Gay-Pride Parade, get more exposure? Aren't there lots of activities that can be done which MORE EFFECTIVELY give positive exposure and educate the public? It seems to me that the current format isn't particularly conducive to the stated goal but is GREAT for selling things. I don't consider saying we are doing this for one reason, when we are really doing it for another to be an "honest buck."
*Finally, a lot of people here complain about greedy Christians who bilk their flocks of money, who take donations and use them for political purposes, and all sorts of money related things. How are we any different if we are combining our livelyhoods with out faith? Won't that money be used for our political purposes? Aren't we acting in the same way, albeit not nearly as productively? It seems like hypocrisy to me. It seems, with the simplest of surveys, that most of Paganism has become business venture. There are books, bumperstickers, calendars, posters, jewelry, online schools, arts and crafts, and so on into the sunset in an neverending line of products. Whether you buy your junk from local Vendors or from Barnes & Noble, you are still just buying more junk, which you didn't gather, which you didn't make, which passed through other hands and has no meaning or real purpose. It is a splendid metaphor for what the so-called Pagan Community is becoming (or has already become) .
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| Someone Tell Me Why Please... | Sep 16th. at 4:43:08 am EDT
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Jeff Kincaid (Lynchburg, Virginia) - Email Me
Why is it in the Pagan community that making an honest buck seems to be a bad thing...that we should automatically gve our fellow Pagans a "professional courtesy" discount on services, or as in this case, that there should not be vendors at a PPD unless All the proceeds go to charity.
Certainly, there should be provisions made for charitable contributions, but when we have so few large get togethers where we can meet and greet others of our ilk, what is the harm in having vendors selling things that we likely can not get at the local Five and Dime? I like the fact that I can fondle the merchandise and get face time with the vendors, who, like as not, are local, or semi local themselves. What is wrong in funneling our money into local vendors instead of buying everything online at Wiccans-R- Us Online Superstore?
Come on people...this is not Charmed, there is nothing wrong with a little personal gain so long as you are honest and honorable and it put food on the plates for your kids. After Pagan kids have to eat too...Pagan house have mortgages, Pagans have bills.....
Jeff
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| Clarification Of Proselytize Vs Educate | Sep 15th. at 4:34:06 pm EDT
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GreeneDragon (Palmdale, California) - Email Me
The link provided in the earlier post defines PROSELYTIZE as:
1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
Telling someone "What Paganism Is" may be persuasive but it is not the same as "converting" or "recruiting" (ie: asking someone to join your faith) .
The same website defines EDUCATE as:
1 a : to provide schooling for
b : to train by formal instruction and supervised practice especially in a skill, trade, or profession
2 a : to develop mentally, morally, or aesthetically especially by instruction
b : to provide with information : INFORM
3 : to persuade or condition to feel, believe, or act in a desired way
If education was the same as prostelytization then that means every time I teach someone what a single-celled organism is I am asking them to become an amoeba.
ROFLMAO!
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| GOOD! | Sep 15th. at 7:48:42 am EDT
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Whitewolf (Schenectady, New York) - Email Me
this was a tastefully -written article, and I think that we in the Pagan community NEED more positive coverage like this.... it will show the broader public that we don't eat or sacrifice babies or such nonsense and clear up the misconceptions that have been rampant about the Pagan / Wiccan path. I think that when events like this are held, the main theme is GENTLENESS! Speak softly and give FACTUAL information.... Show the HUMAN face of Paganism. I only wish there were events like this in my area....
Love to all
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| A Celebration Of Community | Sep 15th. at 6:07:22 am EDT
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NightLad (Toronto, Ontario) - Email Me
I read this article with a skeptic's eye at first, but I must say; by the end, I was quite pleased by the presentation of the information. There are precious few articles in the news these days about Paganism that can be celebrated by virtue of integrity of the reporters, and the sincerity (even seriousness!) of those interviewed. I believe this article was one of them.
>>> "It will be the fourth year for the event, which is free and open to the public. Pagan Pride Day will include information booths, vendors, Earth-centered ceremonies, and other activities to celebrate the autumn equinox."
I’m glad to know there will be vendors in attendance. Whether or not they choose to donate a portion of their proceeds to the main Charity benefitting from the event (“Lord Fairfax Area Food Bank.”) , their presence is an affirmation of the depth of our community.
Visitors who are not members of our community may otherwise never have an opportunity to see pagan goods, or non-Christian religious wears, let alone to bring a piece of our community home with them.
When I’ve attended similar Christian celebrations with my Christian friends there are always vendors available to fill the needs of their communities. For those already members of the community the vendors also provide a chance to see new products, find treasures, and make use of services they may otherwise not have available in their own town.
In every community in the world, be it religious or cultural, there are vendors who support the community by providing the goods and services their fellow members need. I believe that these vendors serve as a keystone in the foundation of communities.
>>> “"The sole purpose behind Pagan Pride Day is to educate the community," said Frederick. "In the past, we’ve always gotten a bad rap that our belief system is kind of off the beaten path."
I believe there is a fine line between ‘raising awareness’ and outright ‘proselytizing.’
Having not attended this particular event I can’t make a call on its intentions, but I can say that in the previous Pagan events I’ve attended no proselytizing was to be seen. Also, this event’s website lacks any of the undertones of proselytization. ( [Web LINK] )
I believe that hosting an open forum for all people to attend and observe is not, in itself, a form of proselytizing. Nobody is being forced to attend. Nobody is being told that their beliefs are invalid or “wrong”. Simply expressing ones faith is not forcing it on others.
>>> “"Frederick, who owns the Stephens City business Morgana’s Elementals, considers herself an eclectic pagan. Although she has heard negative comments about paganism, she also feels people are becoming more open-minded about interests and beliefs outside the mainstream. Her business caters to those interested in New Age items, metaphysics and paganism, and offers workshops such as shamanic drumming."
Good for Ms. Frederick! Personally, I am glad to see that this gathering is being hosted by a respected and devoted member of the community she aims to introduce to the public. It could be far worse; the event could be held by self-proclaimed High Priestess Honey-Bunny who just read 2 books on Wicca she bought on e-bay, and now aims to preach to the media on our chagrinned behalf! (How many articles have we read like that?)
Ms. Frederick came across as a very intelligent, genuine person who can appeal to readers from all walks of life. Does it bother me that she makes her living providing goods and services to the Pagan & New Age communities? Not really. Anybody who knows anything about the business projections of such stores understands that there are FAR better ways to become a millionaire than opening a New Age shop! Especially in a Christian-dominated township. In my personal experience, people who take the financial and emotional plunge into the business act out of a true desire to immerse themselves in their beliefs, and to help others on similar paths have access to what they require.
Again, Ms. Frederick’s personal involvement with our community is a /boon/ to her qualifications for organizing this event. In my opinion, her efforts should be applauded.
>>> “"I personally see a wider group of people becoming interested in paganism," Frederick said. "People you wouldn’t normally expect to have any interest in New Age or metaphysics are coming into the shop."
I think it was important for Ms. Frederick to emphasize the point that not only “cooky New Age folk” are interested in metaphysics. Hopefully it will give more people an approachable avenue to attend the event themselves.
I also understand that this article was less than a full page in length, and Ms. Frederick was probably interviewed for quite some time. As printed articles go, a lot of editing is involved and only a fraction of what was said is actually printed.
>>> “"The Pagan Pride Project is a non-profit organization dedicated to the elimination of prejudice and religious discrimination through education, activism, charity and community."
That sounds about right to me!
When I’ve attended similar events hosted for Christians, I do not expect every vendor to give away their goods or to donate all proceeds to charity. While the desire may be admirable, it is not possible in practice. Likewise, those of us who may ridicule these vendors for needing to make an income to keep a roof above their heads or provide food for their children’s mouths, can, at any time we like, attempt to live by our own judgments. How many of us have donated a month’s paycheck to charity, or freely given away our personal possessions (that we still need and use) ?
Probably not too many of us. For good or ill, we need money to live on in our society. While I have no doubt that many people donate to charity and assist those in need when possible, it is both unrealistic and arrogant to suggest that a business owner should bankrupt themselves while trying to adhere to an extremist ideal of one of their beliefs.
Although, I will point out, that in Canada a group of Buddhist Monks did sell their monastery for $1,000,000 and donated everything to the Tsunami Relief Fund shortly after that tragedy… so I guess some people are capable of embracing that type lifestyle, but it is unrealistic to expect an average individual to live up to those standards.
>>> “The project started with 17 events in the United States and one in Canada, according to information from The Northern Shenandoah Valley Pagan Alliance. It now includes more than 100 events in the United States, Canada, Europe, and South America.”
Last year these events also helped raise over $10,000 for charity, and thousands of pounds of food for local shelters and food banks. At one of the events I attended, various vendors also donated goods to be raffled off, with the proceeds going to charity. Seeing the hand-crafted goods being auctioned was quite touching. I know how much time somebody invested in those beautiful pieces.
>>> “Although rumors surfaced in years past indicating that some area groups opposed Pagan Pride Day, no one has publicly spoken out against it, Vandeberg said. "We honestly have not had any really negative response from anyone yet," he said."
You won’t hear a peep from me!
Later today I plan to attend a Celtic Festival just minutes away from my home at a local park. I expect to see vendors there, selling all types of goods. Most of them will probably have families. I won’t begrudge any of them for making a living while supporting their beliefs and culture.
Be Blessed!
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| The Road To Crass Is Paved With Good Intentions | Sep 14th. at 10:45:12 pm EDT
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Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
I really hate being the "bad guy." You have no idea how pleased I would be to read some articles I could feel good about, have something nice to comment on, or simply not cringe when I read them. Pagan Pride Days, as I have talked about before, don't fill me with much enthusiasm. Let me highlight a few things in this article and point out amusing subtext:
"It will be the fourth year for the event, which is free and open to the public. Pagan Pride Day will include information booths, vendors, Earth-centered ceremonies, and other activities to celebrate the autumn equinox."
Why will there be ANY vendors there? If thie purpose of the event is merely to help educate and remove the stigma applied to those under the Pagan umbrella, where does crass mercantilism come into it? Doesn't that sort of taint the whole process?
"The sole purpose behind Pagan Pride Day is to educate the community," said Frederick. "In the past, we’ve always gotten a bad rap that our belief system is kind of off the beaten path."
Ok. You wish to change opinions, swing people over to your cause. That is called proselytizing.
[Web LINK]
"Frederick, who owns the Stephens City business Morgana’s Elementals, considers herself an eclectic pagan. Although she has heard negative comments about paganism, she also feels people are becoming more open-minded about interests and beliefs outside the mainstream. Her business caters to those interested in New Age items, metaphysics and paganism, and offers workshops such as shamanic drumming."
Ah. Got it. You aren't just a customer, you OWN the company. Surely it is merely a coincidence that you your bread and butter is made by selling people metaphysical junk.
"I personally see a wider group of people becoming interested in paganism," Frederick said. "People you wouldn’t normally expect to have any interest in New Age or metaphysics are coming into the shop."
I suppose you would. More people being interested means more customers. I notice that all that discussion of stigma has kind of faded away. I wonder how many words are dedicated to actually talking about that in this article and how many deal with this shop. I"ve counted.
"Frederick and Vandeberg hope some of the people who attend Northern Shenandoah Pagan Pride Day will be non-pagans who want to learn more about the religions. The majority of the people that show up tend to be pagans. The intent of the event is to get to people who aren’t pagans," Vandeberg said."
Of this I have no doubt. You can't proselytize to people who are already converted anymore than you can sell junk to people who are already stocked up.
"The Pagan Pride Project is a non-profit organization dedicated to the elimination of prejudice and religious discrimination through education, activism, charity and community."
Really? So ALL the Vendors who sell things at the Pagan Pride Day event donate their profits? And if so, to what? Color me dubious. I've no doubt The Pagan Pride Project is non-profit, but I suspect there are people turning a profit.
"Although rumors surfaced in years past indicating that some area groups opposed Pagan Pride Day, no one has publicly spoken out against it, Vandeberg said.
"We honestly have not had any really negative response from anyone yet," he said."
Can mine count as the first one? I think little Christian stores are crass. I think any kind of religious event where the proceeds go anywhere but directly to worthy cause donations are suspect. The word vendor says it all to me. I don't believe in proselytizing, and I don't think running Pagan Pride Days in the same way the Renfair is run teaches non-Pagans anything about us except that we understand the free market.
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