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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20149
[Religious]
Date Posted:
10/25/2008
9:43:29 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 4,306
RSS: 14,318
Comments: 20
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Teen Program Is Being Hurt By Group Of Outsiders, Says Leader
Author: Kelly Stonum Source: Nisqually Valley News (WA)
Title: TEEN PROGRAM IS BEING HURT BY GROUP OF OUTSIDERS, SAYS LEADER
Rainier Chapel’s youth group, ELIFE, is struggling to keep its participants.
ELIFE leader Tom Warner said the problem lies with a disruptive group of teens who hang out in the park adjacent to the church during ELIFE activities.
Warner said parents don’t want to bring their children to ELIFE because of those teens.
Some of the teens outside chant Wicca spells, do drugs and drink alcohol, Warner alleges.
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Community Thoughts: There are 20 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Logger Town Meets 21st Century | Oct 28th. at 1:44:22 am EDT
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Sphinxring (Olympia, Washington) - Email Me
Rainier used to be the sort of logger town where it was hard to know which mud was the street and which was the "lawn".
It was a poverty center with unemployed loggers more recently. Now it's being overwhelmed by new residents buying property. For some reason there's a lot of pagans moving in, as well as new age channelers and other people who are different.
I've been to a lot of handfastings etc. out there as there are a lot of outdoor spaces.
So yeah there are pagan kids in the mix, wiccans very possibly.
It sounds like fear baiting on the part of the pastor, the kids don't buy his pitch, so they are "bad kids" who are out of control.
This time of year darkness comes very early, and hanging around the park after dark isn't a big deal. It sounds like a dodge to meet their friends sfter hours.
The big drug problem in Rainier is meth and this doesn't sound like that.
The rainy season will put an end to hanging around outside anyway.
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| ...ugh | Oct 27th. at 9:41:05 pm EDT
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Lucien211 (Perris, California) - Email Me
alrighty then...now
1. Are these kids bothering you? im saying this to this ELIFE group, i mean just because they are there means you cant have your own little group thing going on?
2. it said that the teens rejected the invitation to come inside and join the worship group and that some of the ELIFE people went out and were only able to coerce "Some of the teens to come inside" , like thats a bad thing? Im sure they would have liked all of them to come in but is there a problem with them just being outside there? Its thier choice to join you or not.
3. "If officers talk to them, maybe they can figure out why they are loitering outside the church". Ok, theyre not on church property from what i can tell from the info in the article. They however apparently are loitering on PARK property.
4. The group suddenly changes gears saying that if you intend to come here then you have to stay here and participate, if you "go out and run around town then the cops will be after you", ok two things here, first is there a curfiew? and second of all why is this group holding a teen gathering that late at night? and second of all...if you intend to go there why would you go out and "run around town"
5. Last i checked, chanting in a public place was not illegal and simply alleging that "Some of the teens outside chant Wicca spells, do drugs and drink alcohol." is not something a community leader and youth advocate should be doing.
6. Now here it says that "things are going to be different" and the whole thing about if you go running around town and all that jazz. “You guys can stay and be a part of the fun, but as soon as you go outside and start running around town, the cops will be after you,” and such, apparently alleging also that this group of teens loitering outside were at one time a part of the group inside. I dont know how this could be true but it would be interesting to find out.
7. While through all of this i have to give kudos to the local sheriffs department. Maintaining that there may or may not be a problem they (from what i can tell) stuck to thier job and simply checked to see if there was a problem in the first place. again...kudos to them...
well that was my 2cents
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| Hmm | Oct 27th. at 11:53:03 am EDT
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Ravenowl (Amboy, Illinois) - Email Me
is it just me or does this whole article seem like a advertisement? I mean seriously he offers absolutely no proof in absolutely any of his charges. First off how did Wicca come up in this at all? Its not a crime to chant in a public place. I mean if they dont even seem threatening in any way. Like other posters have already written, this has to be about the fact that the guy doesnt actually know whats going on, but knows he cant control it. I for one am sick of people getting all defensive when articles come up. Fearing some bad press. To me it simply justifies the morons who put Wicca in this sort of article. It just seems like fluff to me.
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| ..... | Oct 26th. at 11:06:47 pm EDT
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Emerald Tiger (Jamestown, North Dakota) - Email Me
The article states that the park closes at dusk. It seems to me that if you are some place AFTER it is closed it is considered trespassing. So whether the claims are true or not, the police do have the right to ask those that are "loitering" in the park to leave, if they are in violation of the after dusk policy.
As for the other claims . . . COULD BE just a point of view thing. Not being part of it it is hard to tell.
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| ... | Oct 26th. at 7:55:12 pm EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
The kids in the park next to the church have every right to be there. Is that idiot Warner sure they're doing drugs and drinking in that park? If so, then the cops should be there to toss the kids with open containers and drugs out of the park. If not, then Warner (just like his bizarro-world mythology) has zero argument and zero say in this matter.
Oh, and being in that park isn't "trespassing." It's not on cult property, is it?
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| If I Were In Mr. Warner's Youth Group... | Oct 26th. at 4:28:42 pm EDT
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Mysteries Child (Garfield, Arkansas) - Email Me
...his attitude would have run me right straight out the door. Nobody likes to be treated with the assumption that they're just waiting for the opportunity to do something "wrong." I'm 30, and I still have trouble tolerating that attitude when I have to. Teenagers, being in general one of the more quick-tempered, self-righteous, and idealistic demographics out there, aren't going to tolerate it at all.
Are these kids being belligerent?? Hard to tell. Belligerence is such a common human behavior that, unless I have the opportunity to observe for myself, I couldn't say which group set out to make things difficult for The Other Guy.
Just in case, for all you young Pagans out there--- It is **NOT** cool to mess with the Christians on purpose. I can understand why you'd want to, but DON'T. Just keep telling yourselves that self-control is an integral part of magic (however you choose to spell it) .
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| What If... | Oct 26th. at 1:54:14 pm EDT
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Sela (Happyplace, New York) - Email Me
Here' s a thought.
What if the kids outside in the public park were not being rowdy? What if they were hanging with each other and not wanting to join in anyone elses religious activities...?
What if the reverend finding an element that he couldn't control by forcing them to come in and pray with them calls the cops?
What if the rev...makes up charges about drugs and alchohol, throws in a bit witchcraft and tries to have the kids who don't agree with him removed from a public park by force...?
What if the rev knows the cops probably wouldn't have shown up otherwise?
It is about control. That's why the reverend is canvessing the neighborhood with flyers, to widen his influence and by intimidation get others to police neighborhood teens coralling them around to his point of view...
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| Sent This Letter To The Editor About The Rowdies | Oct 26th. at 1:02:25 pm EDT
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Christopher Blackwell (Deming, New Mexico) - Email Me
Letter to the editor.
As a Wiccan of twenty-five years experience I can tell you that whatever those rowdies are they are not Wiccan, and I would recommend that the police take them a lot more seriously. Harassment of any religion's youth activity should not be allowed. You can't have real religious freedom if people are allowed to harass you during you religious or social events.
I am a Marine Vietnam War veteran and one of the things I was fighting for was basic human rights including the right to practice religion in peace. If a Wiccan event were being harassed I would make sure it had security. I would suggest that parents of that church make a habit of being in the park and police it themselves if the police don't take care of it themselves. I suggest you fire your police chief if he is not doing his job. The right preventive action just might prevents some teenager from becoming a criminal and say society the terrible cost of crime.
I am not Christian and never have been, but a place of religion is supposed to be a place of safety and sanctuary. Any religious group has the right to practice in peace and safety and of course that includes Christians.
Shame on those rowdies and don't let them bully you.
Blessed Be,
Christopher Blackwell
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| You Know.... | Oct 26th. at 6:11:03 am EDT
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Errapel (Lowestoft, England) - Email Me
It's possible those kids were chanting Wiccan or Wiccan sounding chants. I know quite a few of my more imature friends would think it funny to chant occult sounding things next to a church youth group, certainly if that group had antagonised them. It's a very good way to mess with people's heads (note I mean good as in effective, not in the moral sense) .
It's possible those kids are drinking and taking drugs, it's equally possible they're just there to hang out, and nothing illegal is being done. That is matter for the police to decide, and it sounds like they're taking a very balanced view and not jumping to conclusions.
If they haven't got anything better to do a lot of teenagers will simply hang out in parks or on street corners. If they become a problem the police move them on. I'm not sure exactly what they're doing that's meaning parents dont want to take their kids to a youth group that's inside and totaly unrelated to the teens on the park. I'd suspect this is some kind of long running fued between the pastor and the teens.
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| I Wouldn't Know A Chanted Wicca Spell... | Oct 26th. at 3:25:58 am EDT
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Shadowbear (Hillsboro, Oregon) - Email Me
... in the park if I heard it. Would you? Do all Wiccans chant the same spells? I somehow doubt it. From the article it sounds like the police haven't spoken to any of the teens supposedly drinking, using drugs and chanting spells in the park so what to we have to go by? This guy has kids coming to his church who have told their parents they were going to his youth group then booking it to the park to play - and "chanting" at him when he objected? The police don't appear to really believe him from the tone of their remarks.
Once again, some fundy-type jerk using the Wicca card to get more attention than he deserves for his complaints.
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| It's Sad And Normal | Oct 26th. at 2:22:52 am EDT
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Greymentality (Kernersville, North Carolina) - Email Me
The kids causing an issue outside the church should not have been trespassing there at all. People are just trying to hang out and be with the divine. So, what's up with that? It was a good thing what the youth group leaders did inviting them in. It was good karma.
Those kids, however, (if they were indeed claiming Wicca) gave a low blow to the Neo-Pagan community that night. People like to overlook facts sometimes, and just say "Hey, I knew a Wiccan that did.... (insert something terrible) . One rotten apple spoils a bunch, just as one word in an article about youth rebellion and youth ministry changes viewpoints for anyone who reads it. Shame on you kids for causing problems!
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| Sounds Supicious | Oct 26th. at 1:06:17 am EDT
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Autumnfyre Spark (Port Charlotte, Florida) - Email Me
I remember being about 7 years old going to my church Christmas play and seeing the teenagers in the woods rolling around in the bushes and I could smell weed.Those same teens were in the chorus and one in particular sang a solo high as a kite with pieces of grass, pine needles and dirt all over her dress.
Teens are going to do these things no matter what.To assume that being a member of a youth group is going to prevent inappropriate behavior is wish-full thinking at best.Yes it does work for some but not for all.
There's also no denying kids will be kids. There's certain ones who will make up things to attract attention to themselves and create havoc where they can because they feel they have nothing else better to do.No matter the spiritual beliefs it does a dis-service to us all.
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| Wait, Wait, Wait... | Oct 25th. at 4:52:11 pm EDT
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Young Coyote (W. Hempstead, New York) - Email Me
How do they know if their Wiccan chants. They aren't Wiccan themselves, nor do they appear to have a high opinion of modern day Pagans based on the tone in which "Wiccan Chant" was thrown around.
For all they know the possible "bad" kids are chanting death metal lyrics or something else totally non-religious. That whole part of the comment appears to have been thrown in out of some kind of spite. Maybe he tried to pick up a Wiccan girl and was rejected?
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| Interesting | Oct 25th. at 3:59:06 pm EDT
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Silver Faery (Hays, Kansas) - Email Me
I know of many places like this group, in fact have been involved in a while growing up. It kept me out of drugs, and a whole lot of drinking and showed me that YES you can have fun without those things and be around friends of a similar belief.
Maybe we as Pagans in different communities should think of starting something similar for the teens that are Pagan. A safe place for them to meet and be who they are and be around both adults and peers like them. But most Christians in the area wouldn't like it for fear of us converting the "children"! Still it's worth a shot in the dark.
Silver Faery
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| I Take Exception ... | Oct 25th. at 3:42:27 pm EDT
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Rev Jorinx (Sioux City, Iowa) - Email Me
... to "chanting Wicca spells" being used in the same context as doing drugs and using alcohol.
Some kids do abuse our practices just to be stinkers. The same goes for Christian kids who vandalize Pagan temples with Xtian graffiti. The point is that kids will sometimes be stinkers for no good reason.
We may not like fundies, but they do have a right to practice their religion without being harrassed as much as we have a right to the same.
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