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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 6255
[Religious]
Date Posted:
2/8/2003
12:05:14 am EST
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Views: 9,549
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Comments: 19
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'New Agers' Dismiss Vatican Document
Author: Matthew Van Dusen Source: The Casper Star-Tribune (WY)
Title: 'NEW AGERS' DISMISS VATICAN DOCUMENT
Perhaps contrary to the Vatican's hopes, the Casper balefill did not fill up with crystals, feng shui accessories or spiritual aromatherapy candles after the Catholic Church announced Monday that New Age practices are spiritually suspect.
The church presented a document called, "A Christian Reflection on the 'New Age'" that described some New Age spiritual practices as "occult," including feng shui, an ancient Chinese art of organizing spaces to create good energy flow.
Casper "occultists" were not surprised the Vatican does not like "New Age" religion.
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Community Thoughts: There are 19 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Does The Vatican Care What Witches Think Of Them? | Feb 9th. at 2:22:36 pm EST |
by Lady Wyldbirch (West Viginia) - wc_xemail
The Vatican tells the people to reproduce so that they remain in poverty and repressed and the vatican can continue to mind-FiretrUCK them. I like the some of the magickal aspects of Catholism. For example, the Catholics couldn't talk the Irish into doing away with the Goddess Brigit - so they made her into a Saint. Dah! The Pope and his Vatican Mafia are all full of that stuff that male cows leave in pasture land after eating a bunch of hay. Just my not so humble opinion.
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| They're At It Again! | Feb 8th. at 7:30:52 pm EST |
by Croisanna (Louisville, Kentucky) - wc_xemail
Concerning the new document from the Vatican:They're at it again. I would not expect anything else. I have been through a number of Christian churches during my life. I was a D of C when young, then joined the Catholic Church, went to the Episcopal Church with my now-ex husband. I kept returning to the Catholic Church and was repeatedly disappointed by the way they treat their parishoners, especially those of the female variety.
Then, I realized why I kept going to the Catholic Church; I went to talk to Mary. When that epiphany struck, I left the Catholic Church and began to explore other spiritual outlets. Wicca and its relationship to the Mother is what I really wanted all along. I am young in Wicca, and am about to take classes so I know what I am doing and what it is all about. I have finally come hone!
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| Amnesty Period For Folks? | Feb 8th. at 5:32:36 pm EST |
by Rhymer (Ann Arbor MI) - wc_xemail
Is there an amnesty period involved? How long do I have to turn in my brain, before I am sanctioned against? I assume this covers wicca and neo-paganism, too.
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| Yawn | Feb 8th. at 2:51:02 pm EST |
by Cerridwen LoneSky (Newmarket, Ontario Canada) - wc_xemail - Web
All I can say us "yawn". Call it what you will, religion or spirituality is really a personal calling. Basically, it all comes down to choice and respect-something that's foreign to most of the world's organised religions.
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| I'm A Former Catholic As Many Of You Are, | Feb 8th. at 12:41:21 pm EST |
by Saradia (Campbellsport, WI) - wc_xemail
I don't have any objections with Catholicism. I've been around Catholics all my life. There are Catholics (and Catholic leaders) whom I greatly respect. I feel that my years of Catechism were a waste of time (mostly because my classmates wouldn't allow the teachers to teach) , however I've had much fewer problems with Catholics than I've had with any other branch of Christianity.
As for the New Age document... boo hoo. Really. I don't even care about it. I'm not Catholic, I don't feel I should worry about what the Catholic church is saying.
It's irritating how people bring up the whole child-molesting thing all the time... There's a priest here whose -life is being ruined- because somebody -suspected- that he -might someday- molest a child. Why? Because he's a younger priest, and if you join the priesthood at an early age you -must- be in it for the little boys, right?
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| *sigh* | Feb 8th. at 12:21:11 pm EST |
by Cher (Vincennes, IN) - wc_xemail - Web
"Still, Rev. Bob Cook from Our Lady of Fatima Church said he agreed with the substance of the document, though he had not read it.
"Often, I think, the New Age stuff is superficial and misleading, " Cook said. "I really believe that if they would turn to trying to understand the Biblical tradition and understand the real nature of a prayerful relationship with God, that would be vastly more satisfactory spiritually then any New Age practice.""
Why would anyone EVER want to agree with something he or she has not read?
Of course 'New Age stuff' would appear superficial and misleading to Rev. Cook as he has not bothered to educate himself.
Cher
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| Hmm - This Kind Of Surprises Me. | Feb 8th. at 12:12:34 pm EST |
by December Rose (Central Illinois) - wc_xemail
As a person who left the Catholic Church just last year (after 20 years of being a Catholic - half my life) , I'm kind of surprised at this. I think I became a Catholic because I thought the only flavor available was Christian - and if you have Pagan tendancies, the Roman Catholic Church is the least objectionable kind of Christianity. It's been my experience that, when Paganism/Wicca is explained properly, Catholics "get it" better than most Christians. These are folks who believe in Magick!
In support of my Catholic husband and children I will say this: as with Paganism and Wicca, most people who bash Catholicism don't understand it or know much about it. The best quote I have ever heard (don't remember where it came from) is this: Anti-Catholicism is the Anti-Semetism of intellectuals.
December Rose
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| This Is All So Predictable!!! | Feb 8th. at 12:04:08 pm EST |
by Fred Lawrence (Kansas) - wc_xemail
I've read all of the Vatican document on the "New Age" as well as the reaction here on Wren's Nest. It all seems utterly predictable!
The document itself was well-researched and thoughtful, but also critical. The Catholic Church has its beliefs, whether or not non-Catholics agree with them. The document was analytical and honest about pointing out how the "New Age" differs from the teachings of the Church. It wasn't in the least wishy-washy, as seems to be so damn common today. It would have been both intellectually dishonest and illogical for the Vatican to say anything else about the "New Age".
The reactions on Wren's Nest are based on the different outlooks of the contributors, which differ completely with that of the Catholic Church. This is also understandable. Frequent mention is made of the recent sex-scandals, which are irrelevant to the document. To the Church, theologically speaking, it is a sin for a priest to molest a child. Covering it up is also a sin. This has nothing to do with the great difference in outlook between the Church and the "New Age".
My own objections to the "New Age" is that it seems to combine complete eclecticism with an equally-complete lack of discernment. New Agers never seem to reject anything no matter how inconsistant it is with other New Age beliefs, nor how silly it can seem when considered objectively. (I am enough of a Vulcan to value logic, which required consistancy and judgment.)
Incidentally, I myself am an ex-Catholic with a grudge. I had the misfortune of attending a pre-Vatican II Catholic School, which turned me into a complete agnostic but also gave me a good grounding in traditional Catholicism. Since then, I have read widely about virtually all religions, including Neo-Paganism.
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| New Age, Old Age Whats The Difference | Feb 8th. at 11:42:28 am EST |
by pendragon (Seattle, Washington) - wc_xemail
I was surprised that an inteligent person would agree with something and not have read it as the Rev Bob Cook did. I must assume that our Rev Cook is an educated person. Its sceary that he would accept a doctrine as gospal and not have read it, this is a person that has theability to touch lives. New Age thought is not that New. Most of it is based on the old ways of every belief.
The Cathloic Church has its own Icons and practices it belives is right. And they exploit it every chance they get. Does a Cross with Christ nailed to it make you a better believer? A persons spritually comes from within not from Icons, candles , robes and such those items are to focas that belief the spritually comes from within.
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| As A Former Member Of The Catholic Church | Feb 8th. at 11:11:01 am EST |
by Ananke (New York City) - wc_xemail
I think Ravensword hit the nail precisely on the head with the purpose for
the Vatican releasing this document on New Age practices at this particular time when she said:
". All I'm seeing in the Pope's latest big time popepaper is that he's scared. Scared of losing the followers that they have to other forms of Christainty, or possibly to another religion"
After attending Catholic schools for all of my primary and secondary education and entering into a marriage "with the blessing" of the Catholic Church, I have to say that I noticed that through the unrelenting mysogeny and hypocrisy of the "rules" that a good Catholic must follow in order to remain in good standing with God, an enormous percentage of the Catholics I knew and still know and have in my family and friend circle today do not follow a good portion of these rules and are moving further and further away from the church in general. The recently sensationalized (but always suspected) priest sex abuse scandal is a symptom of a larger illness that has evolved out of the stagnation of this religion.
In my opinion, none of these man-made rules have anything to do with following Christ's message as I understood it through my very intense studies throughout my educational life in the Church. I remember that when my ex husband and I attended the mandatory pre-caana (interesting name for it) "classes" at a local seminary, that the class size for priests went in less than 50 years from something like 80 to 4 in the most recent photo. They had a series of photographs in the hallways with photos of all of the graduating classes from the seminary. This, to me, was a huge glaring neon sign that the church needed to breathe life back into their religion and that the result of people losing interest in the priesthood would be parishoners losing interest in being Catholic.....period.
This statement is the macrocosm of the church fighting what it sees as foreign particles or disease that has infiltrated its system. They're fighting change and we all know that the more you fight change, the more difficult and violent the process of that change will become because....it's inevitable. Hey, if they look at it and really believe.....they have to belive that this is the way their God created the universe. Especially since they "officially" accepted the theory of evolution in the 1990s.
Who I really feel for are the priests and other clerics within the church who I know ARE trying to breathe life and go with the changes in the world and still hold onto their base faith. I met a Roman Catholic priest a couple of years ago at a very pagan and very popular festival on the East Coast. Though I am not now nor ever will be Catholic again in this lifetime, his presence and tolerance of others by being at that festival and even dancing until dawn around the sacred fire circle showed me that some within the body of the church are accepting change and the evolutionary process. And of course all of these problems with Roman Catholicism are the very reason there are off-shoots of the chruch every day springing up. I did wonder every time I saw him at that festival whether his "superiors" knew he was there. Could be that he was just researching the activities, much like the priest in the Anglican Church that has been the subject of other articles mentioned in Wren's Nest.
Blessed Be
Ananke
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| You've GOT To Be Kidding Me... | Feb 8th. at 10:14:31 am EST |
by Silviar (Gardner, Kansas) - wc_xemail
"Still, Rev. Bob Cook from Our Lady of Fatima Church said he agreed with the substance of the document, though he had not read it."
...How can you agree with something if you haven't even read it?! What if you were misinformed what the document specifically states? Give me a break...
"Often, I think, the New Age stuff is superficial and misleading, " Cook said. "I really believe that if they would turn to trying to understand the Biblical tradition and understand the real nature of a prayerful relationship with God, that would be vastly more satisfactory spiritually then any New Age practice."
Yeah, well, your 'truly understanding the real nature of a prayerful relationship' with the One God, as you so espouse made me clinically depressed. What absolute shyte. My spirit has never felt so free and happy. I'm comfortable with me. If you don't like that, then cry on your Bible at night. I respect your religion even though you knock on mine. Laissez Faire should be applied to religion and spirituality.
I agree with Ravensword~ each religion, each form of spirituality has their out of it people, and their marketers...but really, Christians have a LOT more than we do...Can you say "The power of Chris compels you!"?
Btw...did the pope actually sign the document about new age, or was it just from a lower grunt?
*steps off her soapbox and walks away*
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| Remove The Speck From Thine Own Eye | Feb 8th. at 9:19:40 am EST |
by LightSpirit (Nova Scotia, Canada) - wc_xemail
...Catholic Church announced Monday that New Age practices are spiritually suspect...
And the "grab your nearest altar-boy" dance isn't spiritually suspect?
I think the catholic church needs to re-examine their own structure before they start pointing their crooked finger at anyone else.
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| Crystals Vs Christianity | Feb 8th. at 8:55:16 am EST |
by stormwalker (North Dakota) - wc_xemail
Odd that New Age items and beliefs are marketing, but having to pay for a mass for the dead or a fee for 'special' materials for use in instruction courses for first communion, confirmation, or marriage preparation is not considered marketing by the Catho;ic church. By the way, what about all those paid for indulgences, during the middle ages?
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| OK I Think I Have To Say This..... | Feb 8th. at 7:42:26 am EST |
by Ravensword (USA) - wc_xemail
...we all know or have known that really freaky "New Age" person that you just want to ask "What are you smoking?". And we all know that person who is the all knowing, all seeing, and if you buy my books and vidoes, you can be too person. And then we all know that person that is down to earth, and you would have a hard time picking out of the crowd, but is a firm beliver in some form of New Age dogma or another. But you can't tell me that when, it comes to marketing that Tim Lahaye does not have the New Agers beat hands down. And when it comes to asking what's the drug flavor of the week, some of these tele- preachers have our freaky New Ager friend beat bong down. All I'm seeing in the Pope's latest big time popepaper is that he's scared. Scared of losing the followers that they have to other forms of Christainty, or possibly to another religion. After all of the scandals the Church has to deal with, they need something to bring in the sheep and put blinders on them. Remember the call that Catholics need to have more babies? When ever I hear about a person blindly following the word or action of a religious leader, what I hear is..."BAAAAAAA!"
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| OK I Think I Have To Say This..... | Feb 8th. at 7:41:11 am EST |
by Ravensword (USA) - wc_xemail
...we all know or have known that really freaky "New Age" person that you just want to ask "What are you smoking?". And we all know that person who is the all knowing, all seeing, and if you buy my books and vidoes, you can be too person. And then we all know that person that is down to earth, and you would have a hard time picking out of the crowd, but is a firm beliver in some form of New Age dogma or another. But you can't tell me that when, it comes to marketing that Tim Lahaye does not have the New Agers beat hands down. And when it comes to asking what's the drug flavor of the week, some of these tele- preachers have our freaky New Ager friend beat bong down. All I'm seeing in the Pope's latest big time popepaper is that he's scared. Scared of losing the followers that they have to other forms of Christainty, or possibly to another religion. After all of the scandals the Church has to deal with, they need something to bring in the sheep and put blinders on them. Remember the call that Catholics need to have more babies? When ever I hear about a person blindly following the word or action of a religious leader, what I hear is..."BAAAAAAA!"
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