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| Witchvox Chapter: Wren's Nest News | Chapter Page Views: 56,545,245 |
 Bill Allows Mixing Of Religion, Politics Author: Lara Jakes Jordan, Associated Press Source: Yahoo Title: BILL ALLOWS MIXING OF RELIGION, POLITICS Churches that mistakenly mix religious and political activity would face reduced fines but keep their tax exempt status under a provision in a corporate tax bill the House is to consider this week. The proposal, which could invalidate the strict separation of religion and politics in current tax laws, was introduced by House Republicans the same week President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election campaign targeted 1,600 Pennsylvania congregations to recruit voters. Critics fear it would give politicians a pass to flout the rules without putting religious organizations at risk. The mammoth bill, the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004, would impose reduced fines against churches and other places of worship that inadvertently allow political activity on their properties more than twice a year. On the third violation, the religious organizations would lose their tax exemption for one year. | |
| Community Thoughts: There are 20 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Re | Jun 10th. at 11:44:57 am EDT |
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by Allison (USA) - wc_xemail WHY churches are tax exempt in the first place is beyond me. Churches should be heavily taxed my opinion. In Finland, people have to pay a tax to belong to the church which I think is a brilliant idea because as a result, only about 10% of the population there go to church, and not many more than that are christian. So that means less christians around to ram their sh*t down everyone else's throats. But Finland is, was and will always be a Heathen country, and so it should be. :) It's a totally brilliant idea which should be implemented in every country. |
| Actually.. | Jun 10th. at 1:45:56 am EDT |
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by Karma (Syracuse, NY) - wc_xemail While the exact wording of the Constitution doesnt say "separation of church and state" a little document called The Treaty of Tripoli was drafted a few years later and endorsed by most of the founding fathers. Look it up online, it basically gives the idea of what they thought about combining theology and politics. Saying "That could never happen in America" is simply naive. You think the German people before WW2 went, "Hey, in a few decades we're going to attempt to kill off the entire Jewish population in Europe!!!" I doubt it. When people settle into a life of complacency saying, "That will never happen, I dont need to worry about it" thats when bad things happen. The entire idea of democracy is to have everyone's voice heard so that *things like that DONT happen*. Maybe you thought that "Taliban" was a strong word, but it got the point across. Those "fundies" you talked about are RUNNING THE COUNTRY right now and they have said, more than once, that they believe we are a Christian nation and that the world would be a better place if everyone were Christian. Dont believe me? Go to positiveatheism.org and look up some of their "Scary Quotes" They have some nice tidbits from Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and the Bush gang et al. Yes, our country has a system of checks and balances meant to keep really bad stuff like that from happening but without dissenting voices there wouldn't be checks and balances. It isnt a conspiracy theory to say that a lot of the people currently in power want this to be a Christian nation. |
| How To Express Yourself | Jun 9th. at 12:39:31 pm EDT |
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by Pan (Atlanta, GA) - wc_xemail This website will let you find your rep and send them a letter to let them know how you feel about pending legislation. [Web LINK] |
| It's My Imagination... | Jun 9th. at 11:45:50 am EDT |
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by Skullhunter (Portland, Oregon) - wc_xemail ...that Bush has used specific religious imagery to refer to his election and the current "war on terror". It's my imagination that his attorney general gave preferential treatment to Christian day care centers and showed demonstrable bias against pretty much anything that opposed the tenets of his faith during his tenure as governor of Missouri. It's just a persecution complex that caused me to hear Bush state during his campaign that witchcraft wasn't a valid religion and made me hear Bob Barr call on the military to ban pagan practices by soldiers in the US military. It's simple coincidence that almost all of the inspiration for Bush's initiatives relating to his faith-based initiatives comes from hardcore right-wing Christians. At this moment, it is again just my imagination that Bush is relaxing the restrictions on religious organizations exerting political influence for any other reason besides the inherent goodness of his heart. And my imagination is obviously completely out of control, otherwise we'd all know that there are no longer any sessions of political officials that begin with Christian prayer alone, there is no massive coordinated push to legislate the nature of civil marriage according to secular religious tenets and there was no effort by the Democratic party to outdo the Republican party in mentioning God and religion. I sincerely apologize to any and all of my pagan brothers and sisters for any information you come across to the contrary, as it is again just my imagination running away with you all. |
| Thoughts | Jun 9th. at 11:26:43 am EDT |
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by Ashe Winterwolf (TX) - wc_xemail Yes, the first amendment says there will be no state sponsored/endorsed religions, no Church of America as one poster stated. This is absolutely true. However, our government has in place tax legislation which grants tax-exempt status to those organizations that apply, qualify, and are granted such. In the case of religious organizations part of the "bargin" they have entered into with the government is the agreement that they will not become politically active any way, shape, or form. When the GOP asks these churches to "influence" their parishoners the GOP is asking said church to risk their tax-exempt status and commit an illegal act. (Not a surprise with this Administration) . Any member of a tax-exempt organization who attempts any activity that can be construed as politically motivated is committing an illegal act that can cost that organization its tax-exempt status, as well as, monetary fines. It really is that simple. If churches desire to enter into the political game they need to renounce their tax-exempt status and be taxed accordingly. This is the big difference between taxed interest groups who donate to a candidate, within their legal rights, and tax-exempt groups who, legally, can't donate to a candidate. I don't see what is so hard to understand about this or how tax-exempt groups have been getting "screwed" for years as one poster put it. It is always their choice, and if they want to play, make 'em pay, just like the rest of us. They, legally, can't have their cake and eat it too. Btw, history is full of examples of what happens when there is no separation between government and religion. The corruption in Egyptian, Roman, and a variety of European governments are shining examples. What is the saying...Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. |
| Get Real! | Jun 9th. at 5:47:28 am EDT |
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by Nesha Nightwolfe (OKC) - wc_xemail Nearly everyone here is forgetting one thing when it comes to religion & politics- There is no clause that states that there should be a separation of church & state, it merely states that congress shall endorse no ONE religion over all others. And they have not done that so far, even though the left seems to think they have simply b/c every member of the government is not an atheist or a humanist. The constitution declares that Americans shall have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM it. You simply cannot force public atheism on people, which is exactly what the "separatists" are trying to do. The PC thugs of today seem to think that it's their duty to erase religion from our society, and make it into such a taboo subject that people will be too scared of offending an atheist or someone of another faith & getting sued over it to even mention their god in public. The American Taliban? I think not. Has congress declared that Christianity is the only acceptible religion in America? NO. And crazy conspiracy theories do not apply here- you can't say that they're trying to turn America Christian just b/c Bush is Christian. Is Bush going to start killing & torturing people's children b/c the parents did something un-christian? Umm... Probably not. Is he going to introduce new laws that ban women from wearing pants, short skirts, tank tops, etc. b/c such attire is un-christian? Highly doubtful. Also, is he going to declare that all women must obey their husbands under penalty of death by stoning? Hell no. Get real. There will never be an American Taliban b/c people here are simply not that friggin' crazy. Sure, we have our fundies, but even they know their limits. |
| The American Taliban | Jun 8th. at 9:46:53 pm EDT |
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by Pan (Atlanta, GA) - wc_xemail is what we will be living under if we keep letting things like this get by us. A lot of people who read Witchvox were upset when the head of the Faith Based Initiatives made his snide comments about us. That was just one thing the American Taliban has done. Check on info on the faith based initiatives. An audit will reveal that lots of those dollars are supporting organizations that evangelize, rather than simply paying for community service projects. What about the idiocy of removing the teaching of evolution from high school science classes, which the American Taliban has tried in several states? What about all these bogus fights about placing the 10 Commandments in courthouses? American Taliban again. Some of these courthouses in Georgia and North Carolina didn't even put up a 10 Commandments display until after the unethical and politically motivated judge from Alabama got famous for it. That just shows how contrived the issue is. What about all the promotion of abstinence-only sex education classes for young people? That's part of the American Taliban's agenda. When the Catholic bishops tell Catholics that they should not receive the sacraments if they vote for politicians who support abortion rights, gay marriage, stem cell research or euthanasia, then that's using blackmail to try and tell them to vote for Bush, isn't it? American Taliban. So now they want to turn the churches into places for political rallies and fundraising. No good can come of this. I will be writing my Congressional reps to let them know that I am against this. I do not savor the thought of living under an American Taliban. We need to speak up before it is too late. Pan |
| Notice: | Jun 8th. at 9:31:33 pm EDT |
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by Zell Trepe (Michigan USA) - wc_xemail Note that the proposed law is ataced to a bill with a nice name like the "American Jobs creation act" doesn't that sound nice? Who would be against creating american jobs? The republicans atached the bill to this act on purpose for political reasons to make any democrat who votes against it look like a jerk |
| Over My Dead Body... | Jun 8th. at 8:35:58 pm EDT |
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by Guido Paganos (Pennsylvania, USA) - wc_xemail ...that is the stance I'm taking with respect to the bullsh*t idea that Bush believes he's going to carry my state. I'd sooner eat spam for 3 squares a day for the next 4 years than deal with him winning my state. You may be able to flim-flam the people in Texas, but we don't serve Crawford Waffles around here. I will not lie idly by while his moronic and evil-minded minions go around "friendly" churches by their standards and beg for votes nearly illegally. I don't want to hold people of faith from being involved in civic life. I want them to have the freedom to practice their faith and religion free from the nonsense and hegemony of politics and grant separate time to civic matters. Gee, the Bible even mentions things about granting Caesar his time and due apart from the Lord. Apparently, W and his brood of scoundrels forgot to read that passage or they don't belong in their "friendly" churches. When you work in behavior management, manipulation is so easy to see through it's like a 3rd party play in surreal conditions. |
| Bill Allowsmixing Of Religion And Politics | Jun 8th. at 1:55:21 pm EDT |
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by darkoak (bloomington il) - wc_xemail saw a movie recently , a line from it goes"when politics and religion ride in the same cart; the whirlwind follows." just something for you all to think about. |
| Foot In The Door Politics | Jun 8th. at 1:08:15 pm EDT |
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by Steph (Midwest City OK) - wc_xemail Holy bible beaters Batman! Anyone but Bush 2004, has taken on a whole new meaning. Voting that man out of office has now become an act of self preservation. THere are so many churches in the US, that if that law were allowed to pass, if every church did "inadvertantly" allow political acts through their religious forum [wink wink nudge nudge, say no more...] we would never hear the end of it! It would never end and it would become so common place and so prolific that the law would be impossible to enforce. THis is something to write your congressional representatives about. So just you all thank you stars you don't have Nickles and Inhoff. |
| God And Country? | Jun 8th. at 12:52:21 pm EDT |
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by Ashe Winterwolf (TX) - wc_xemail "In God We Trust" was added in the 1950's during the Cold War. The Masons are not a religious organization, although, you must profess a belief in a higher power to be a member. The Illuminati was an 18th c political organization formed in Bavaria whose sole purpose for being was to overthrow monarchies and replace them with more democratic forms of government. They were disbanded before the end of the 18th century, if I'm not mistaken, with some of the members jailed for treasonous activities. I have to say that this doesn't surprise me in the least. When I was reading about what some of the Catholic clergy were trying to pull concerning the elections I had a suspicion that just this type of legislation would be put forward. |
| God And Country | Jun 8th. at 12:02:15 pm EDT |
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by Druidrex (Tampa Fl.) - wc_xemail Lets get realistic. God has always been in politics. Look at the money in your pocket. It has in god we trust printed on it. It has a pyramid with the floating eye of the masons and the illuminati. 13 stars and stripe on the original American flag (lunar calendar) . There are more pagan religious icons in the documents of this country than christian and pagans are still whining? So I guess the real question is, if the churches and religious organization gave up their tax exempt status then could they freely fund a political cause without being horanged? I think not. Remember the only real seperation of church and state mentioned by the fathers of our Country is that there would be no state established church. No "Church of America" like the Church of England. I think religious institutions have been getting screwed for years. All a religion is is a group of people with common morals and beliefs. If thats the case should we make it illegal for the NAACP, ACLU, etc... etc... to donate monies for a cause. The burning time are over people.... .... almost. |
| Even I... | Jun 8th. at 11:14:57 am EDT |
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by Ani (WV) - wc_xemail ... have to see danger in this. I agree with the notion that there is an effort afoot to exclude people of faith-- ALL faith-- from America's civic life. Easier for pols of all stripes to line their pockets if there are no pesky moral people around to get their convictions about things like right and wrong in the way. But this seems like license for the money in the collection plate to go to political organizing rather than things churches should be doing... like glorifying [God] by feeding the poor and crazy stuff like that. I just don't know what to do about it... forgive the Loud Soapboxer for feeling small and hopeless today but it seems like a lose-lose situation, more of a mess than even magick backed by physical effort can clean up. Be blessed anyway. --Ani |
| A Letter To Your Representatives | Jun 8th. at 10:38:41 am EDT |
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by raven (US) - wc_xemail Here is a copy of the letter I sent my representative regarding this matter. Please feel free to copy and paste this letteror embellish it and send it to your reps. Dear I am writing in regard to the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004, recently introduced by House Republicans. I am adamantly opposed to this proposal, which will allow political activity by churches and religious groups. It has been stated that "people of faith have as much right to participate in the political process as anyone else" and I agree completely, but not by using religious groups as a forum or allowing organizations with tax exempt status to "campaign" for or against a political candidate without risk of losing that exemption status. I believe the framers of our Constitution were in favor of a wall of separation and indeed many of them spoke publicly about it. This is yet one more chink in that wall and I urge you to vote against this proposal. Sincerely, |
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