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| Witchvox Chapter: Wren's Nest News | Chapter Page Views: 54,888,485 |
 Overseas Papers: Bush Win Showed U.S. Conservative Values Author: Patrick Worsnip, Reuters Source: Wired Title: BUSH WIN SHOWED U.S. CONSERVATIVE VALUES -OVERSEAS PAPERS   George W. Bush's victory in Tuesday's U.S. presidential election showed the depth of conservative sentiment in middle America that liberals failed to take account of, European newspapers said on Thursday.Left-leaning dailies expressed incredulity and horror at the result -- "Oh, God" in small white letters were the only words on an otherwise completely black front page of an inside section of Britain's Guardian. But the same newspaper, which had backed Democratic challenger John Kerry, headlined one article on the election: "Small-town morals win the day." "The coalition of moderate classes, the financial world and Christian traditionalists gathered in by the (Bush) strategist Karl Rove expresses the deep-rooted spirit of the country, the domestic mood snubbed by the mass media," said Italy's leading broadsheet Corriere della Sera. | |
| Community Thoughts: There are 40 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Getting Better All The Time | Nov 6th. at 10:59:08 pm EST |
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by Antistoicus (Chicago, Illinois, US) - wc_xemail - Web Truly, much of what I've seen here has inspired me - which is not to say that it brought me any joy. It has inspired me to create a new webring, by reminding me not only of how little genuine tolerance there is to be found among our liberal so-called brethren, but of their less than charming habit of feigning acceptance. In other words, it's OK to be on the other side of the political aisle from them, but how dare we make the difference between their side and ours a meaningful one, instead of a show one, put in place to create the illusion of diversity where there is only conformity, a la the political correctness of the 1990s. Not only will such "brethren" slide in the knife, but they'll act as if they are making peace as they do so. I think that it's time for the rest of us to tell our progressive friends "have a nice life", and mean it as we walk away, concerning ourselves with them no further. Let it be as if they were dead to us, their numerous personal issues of no further interest to us, because it makes no sense continuing to make common cause with those so narrowminded, that they have remained on a warlike footing with us on a continuing basis, over nothing more than a difference of opinion. We have turned the other cheek, time and time again, and eventually the time comes to say "enough!". The name of the ring, linked to from here, is "Conservative Pagans, Traditionalists and Heathens"; my little offering to the effort to get networking going among Conservative Pagans. It's the weekend, so not being a liberal, I'm going to go out and do what comes naturally right now - I'm going to have fun. But I should have a homepage for the ring up in the next few days. I hope that those who have sites appropriate to the theme of the ring will join this effort, so far the only Conservative Pagan webring. As for our liberal "brothers and sisters", if they love screaming so much, let them scream at each other and find joy in it. We have other places to be. To the rest of you - your side lost an election. Grow up and get over it. Or maybe even better - don't! If you truly have so little self-control, that you really can't handle this defeat on an adult level, then let the world see you exactly as you are, so they will know exactly how seriously not to take you, any more. Like I said, enough is enough. |
| Religion Or Politics? | Nov 5th. at 1:21:34 pm EST |
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by karen hay (Issaquah, Wa) - wc_xemail It appears that what is being misunderstood here is the choices being made by our religious beliefs not necessarily our political beliefs. I for one will not be judging anyone by the way they have voted- be it republican or democrat. I will however, question how a Pagan/Wiccan can support death/killing - in any form. War is death - if you follow the Wiccan path - killing of any kind is completely against this religious belief be it justified or not. Guns kill - and are used in the war overseas and the one on the streets right here in the U.S. And I konw the that argument that guns dont kill people, people kill people. If there wasn't a weapon so readily at hand, maybe less people ( children included) would be dead. Our planet is dying - the sanctions that once protected HER are being lifted - go to ANY environmental website and see for yourself. What you believe in - your code of honor - must ring true in all that you do. The choices you make will affect your present and future and that of your children. Support the person you truly feel embodies the way of life Pagans and Wiccans have fought for. Don't be swayed by political arguements -more importantly don't be swayed by the media and dont be swayed by the candidates. This was the dirtiest and most disgusting politcal campaign in the history of the U.S. It would take years to sort out what was truth and what was lies It's time to do your own research and find out what is going on in our World - then look deep within. The die is now cast - with a country divided WE have to band together to hold onto our way of life and to help others in need -this also is a part of the Wiccan philosophy. Republican, democrat, pagan, druid, witch -remember we are all the same in the eyes of the God/dess. Lady Bless Cerrigan |
| Hmph | Nov 5th. at 11:52:21 am EST |
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by Archer Jadephoenix (NJ, USA) - wc_xemail First of all, I don't mind conservatives. I mind BUSH. Why? Because we're not safer with Bush. We're at more risk. He just ticked off the very people that had attacked us, and not only did he do that with his war in Iraq, but he gave the people over there more reason to join the terrorist organizations. We went in for the wrong reason (we thought he had weapons of mass destruction and he didn't) . Bush and his people made a mistake. Yet they refuse to apologize, and refuse to try and make things right, and instead insist on "staying the course." Why else? Because Bush said THIS: "I don't think witchcraft is a religion. I would hope the military officials would take a second look at the decision they made." G.W. Bush (R) , as Governor of Texas. Interviewed on ABC's Good Morning America, 1999-JUN-24. He disapproved of Wiccan soldiers being given the same religious rights as others in the military. Why else? Because he's killing our environment, bit by bit, and whatever the outcome of this war, we're still going to have to deal with THAT mess. I live in NJ. I make frequent (very frequent) visits to NYC. I was there only weeks after the towers fell. I smelled the stink of burnt metal and ash and the rest of the burnt rubble. I am more scared now, with Bush in office, than I was then. In addition, now Bush is stating (even after saying over and over again that he is a uniter and not a divider) that the ones who didn't vote for him need to jump in with him or be left behind. Those are not the words of a uniter, when America needs to heal and unify more than ever. I am not a conservative basher. I -am- anti-Bush though. Not because he's conservative, but because he refuses to see what's immediately in front of him. And I apologize that this is off topic, but I felt the need to reply to the comments left. |
| Forgetting The Big Picture | Nov 5th. at 11:38:35 am EST |
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by Artemis (New Hampshire) - wc_xemail MM A quick glance at the responses shows emotions are running quite high with the results of the elections. Admittedly, I am a liberal-minded person, and I must admit much dismay at the results (although I am not surprised) . I see much of the anger displayed, on both sides of the issue, as much of an issue of balance more than political views. The way I see it, having two political parties, and some rather polarized ideas, do serve a purpose when trying to run a big, powerful country. The traditional views of conservatism (fiscally-aware, somewhat fearful, morally/intellectually rigid, and promoters of traditions that are just as productive as they can be counter-productive) are balanced by the liberal view (forward-thinking, "hope"-based thinking, morally/intellectually fluid, and promoters of new ideas that are just as potentially wasteful as they could be new solutions) . When the system works right, they are in balance. That makes just enough of each, in the House and in the Senate, to allow for compromise to meet an answer somewhere in the middle that everyone can abide by. When this works, it works smoothly. However... Our country is now faced with an overabundance of conservatism. Having a conservative, short-sighted president in office, combined with a conservative and fearful Senate, indicates the potential for one-sided decisions that are NOT in the best interests of the country. What you are seeing with liberals "insulting and trashing Republicans or conservatives", is a result of that fear. No one wants to be excluded in a democratic system. The ideas of four year terms and voter responsibilities are the fail-safe mechanisms to make sure that no change in government is permanent. As a liberal, the election of 2000 threw a big caution sign up as how fragile this balance really is. Bush did not get into office by popular vote, but there he was. Then 9/11 happened and all reason and long-term planning for a rather large and rich society went completely out the window. Emotions are still running high, and the chasm that developed four years ago is now wider. As a liberal Pagan, I do feel betrayed by Pagans who identify themselves as conservative. Our country is running a deficit that is approaching, if not reaching the TRILLIONS. We are now further isolated from the European communities, Aisian corporations are buying up huge tracts of property in the US, and an entire generation of Muslim -influenced worlds has been raised to believe my beloved country is nothing more than the embodiment of the devil. This is why I am nervous about another four years. I have personally seen first-hand the results of conservative cost-cutting measures in the health and human services. I watched a client die in the streets as a result of eliminated medical aid for the poor (and I mean literally-I was there when the coroner showed up) . The thought of more troops dying, more people dying, and the resources that we have held dear getting lost to those with the money to say "Hmm, I think I want THAT.." is why I am angry, and aggressive, and feeling trapped. I just hope I won't be forced to chew my leg off to get out of it. BB (PS. Europeans really do think we are completely stupid. My mother spent most of two weeks in England trying to explain to her hosts why our country ended up with Bush for a president. Parisians were not even polite about their questions. Looks like we will have cancel our plans to go back-at least for another four years.) |
| Rivetting As Always, Kids | Nov 4th. at 11:17:19 pm EST |
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by Antistoicus (Chicago) - wc_xemail - Web So much to comment on... What I found amusing, in an annoying kind of way, was watching somebody, in effect, say that respect for the opinions of others requires that one base one's opinions on their opinions - and then talk about the importance of "giving freedoms". Without the freedom of thought, there is no freedom of volition, leaving the other freedoms nothing more than polite fictions - which, where Political Correctness has held sway, is how things have mostly worked out. Personally, I like the fact that the leader of the free world has a backbone, instead of being an opportunistic coward, glad to sway with the political breeze, basing his own views on the results of polls, anything to keep a nice, cushy job in the White House. Apparently, some feel otherwise. The good news is that there seem to be fewer of those in each election. Much more of this, and I might actually start developing a little faith in my fellow man and hope for the future. |
| No Title | Nov 4th. at 10:15:56 pm EST |
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by Some Guy (Earth) - wc_xemail The Civil Rights Act of 1866, the 14th Amendment, and the American Woman Suffrage Association were all Republican. Not even moderate Republicans either. The ones championing for the first two were refeered to as being radical, even by thier peers. Segregationists were classically Democrat. |
| The Landscape | Nov 4th. at 10:06:06 pm EST |
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by R. Cicero (Seattle) - wc_xemail Now that the initial shock and horror has passed I find it all less miserable than the 2000 debacle. Bush is in for four, half of America fervently supports him, so there is little to be done, especially with a Republican heavy Congress. They will have their day and then some, and it can only be hindered, not stopped. If you have strong convictions you will either have to fight it out in the streets or sit on your hands. Perhaps Daschle's absence is for the best, to make way for stronger, less appeasing Democratic voices. There was a time in the South when voting Democratic was a birthright and to vote Republican a treacherous crime. If you leaned Republican, you voted for the most conservative Democrat. Perhaps that is the new philosophy in bizarro world. If you like Democrats, you may have to vote for the most liberal Republican. It is encouraging to note that while the theocratic tendencies of conservatives are truly nauseating, when it comes to fiscal responsibility, Bush is not one of them, and with a poweful House and Senate, the true conservatives will probably give the misdirected Bush an earful. As for the public schools and future scenario of the Supreme Court, I guess we should be thankful that the Pledge of Allegiance will only be to a Christian God and not to George W. in the manner of the Third Reich. |
| Get A Life!!!!!!! | Nov 4th. at 9:47:02 pm EST |
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by watcher in the wind (summerville, sc) - wc_xemail I am SICK AND TIRED of the hypocracy i see in this community . I subscribe to numerous groups and blogs. And get less flack for political disagreements on Right Wing groups than I do here. Go to your dictionaries and look up the word tolerence people. If you preach tolerance than practice it and stop flaming people simply because they support Bush we dont flame you. I have yet to see a bush supporter spit out the venom that those of you throw at conservatives. Look Im sorry your guy didnt win but if bush had lost do you think I or any other Coservative Pagans would be on here complaining and questioning "paganism" of liberals no we wouldnt . I have asked questions of it in the past but that was to understand positions not to wound egos. So Again I say GET A LIFE !!!! |
| I Don't Get It. | Nov 4th. at 9:43:53 pm EST |
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by Black Storm Hawk (Philadelphia Suburbs) - wc_xemail As a country we've been dealing with elections and transfers of power for the last 228 years. Everyone gets another chance at this presidential election thing in 2008. I fail to see the utility of continuing the divisiveness that this election cycle has perpetrated ... I'm even more surprised by the Hate and Rage being expressed by the left. More often than not I hear liberals expressing their caring and respect for all. Apparently this respect ends where political differences begin. By denigrating people who didn't make the same choice you did in the polls, by calling them stupid, or belittling them as unthinking members of the Christian Right may comfort you by increasing your own thoughts of superiority, but you are yourself losing. There is no difference between this kind of name calling and finger pointing and that of a racist. You didn't "lose" in the political process, if you participated in it, even if your candidate is not going to be taking the Oath of Office in January. The opportunity was presented to you to get your important issues in the public eye. This happened, and likely made people think. Yes, I am the Religious Right, just not the religion most people expect. I am a Conservative Pagan. I am not an Oxymoron. Or any other kind of moron. I love my country, I respect and cherish the freedoms that are mine by right, and enumerated in the Constitution. The Constitution does not GIVE me those rights, but it does codify and protect them. |
| Sigh... | Nov 4th. at 9:42:17 pm EST |
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by Hermione (Maine, USA) - wc_xemail I was astonished and dismayed at the half of our country who would put this man back into office. Then I started doing some research. It is quite clear that this election was rigged. Search around online for "election fraud" - you'll see what I mean. I agree that we should respect each others' opinions, but some viewpoints are so fully opposite that they just cannot be reconciled. I agree with the writer who expressed amazement than any Pagan, Wiccan or Witch could vote for George W. Bush. His overall policies are completely contrary to our values, especially in terms of environmental and foreign policy issues. Yes - I said OUR values. I realize that not all P/W/W folk believe the exact same things. Yet, we DO have a set of reasonably similar core values. There ARE certain beliefs that you CANNOT have if you wish to legitimately call yourself a modern Wiccan. That's what makes a religion a religion. A line must be drawn somewhere. I hope this administration chooses to serve the half of the country who *didn't* vote for them. I doubt they will, though. Remember, for 100 to be the average IQ, 50% of the people have to be below average. |
| Lowest Common Denominator | Nov 4th. at 6:15:47 pm EST |
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by Rowan Foxfyre (Indianapolis, In) - wc_xemail Finding a common ground, being concerned for the well-being of all, and not just one's own Pocket, giving freedoms so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others, are the Values that I support. George W. Bush does not support the Views of all Americans, nor does he make any bones about his lack of respect for those of us who follow Pagan paths, happen to be gay, who believe that a choice of an abortion is one that the woman should make not the government. Overseas newspapers like to put a label/name on things, just like our own journalists, to sell Papers. I seriously doubt that things like the fact that even though it was one of the highest voter turnouts in 30 some odd years that less than half of all registered voters cast their ballot, and the fact that the number of eligible voters Far outweighs the number of registered voters, even makes their pages. Why? Because that would give things a perspective of being not represenative of the Natrion as a whole, and that dosen't sell papers. |
| Let's Talk About Conservatives... | Nov 4th. at 6:06:57 pm EST |
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by Lula-Neith Cache (St. Paul, MN) - wc_xemail i'm so sick of it. liberal is NOT a bad word. it seems conservatives, particularly the religious ones, are operating on some misguided sense of nostalgia. i have no nostalgia. i'm black. i LIKE that i can now sit where i want on the bus, go where i like without being lynched. i don't even think we're done with our racial perceptions and assumptions even NOW, let alone 40 years ago. i also like that i can VOTE. as a woman and an african-american, had conservatives -- those who did NOT want positive change -- triumphed, i would not have been able to vote. be as religious as you like, as long as you don't tell me i MUST be of the same faith. don't believe in abortion, but don't tell me i can't have one -- work to make it a world where women don't HAVE to have them. education, compassion anyone? you can't live in your lily-white suburb and expect that it won't eventually touch you. when those who are trying to keep up with the jonses and are two checks away from poverty lose their jobs, where is the safety net? how are we going to take care of our elderly if no one wants to put anything in the pot? i don't think conservativism means LESS government. i think trying to decide people's morals is BIG government, not small. spending billions of MY money that i pay in taxes for war is BIG government. if iraq were about freedom, why can't women walk the streets there now? why is everyone now more afraid to talk to americans or other foreigners for fear their houses will be bombed? how did saddam get his power anyway? from US, when we were mad at iran. we pay now, or pay later. -Lula. |
| About The Environment ... | Nov 4th. at 6:02:39 pm EST |
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by Wendelin (Texas) - wc_xemail Yes, I follow an earth-based religion, and caring for the Earth is important to me. But right now, I am concerned about terrorism; I'd like to make sure my city isn't going to be blown up by a dirty bomb first ... once I'm sure it's going to be around, then I can care for it environmentally. In the meantime, I continue to do what I can, personally, for my environment - buy organically and locally, use organic products in my house and on my lawn, conserve energy, save my money to buy a hybrid car, walk often, lobby for sound local environmental practices, plant trees, recycle, yadda yadda yadda. I consider myself to be fairly socially liberal and fiscally/foreign policy-wise conservative. I usually vote Libertarian. But this time, the foreign policy issues outweighed the other issues, and *I* think that as an American, I am safer with George W. Bush in the White House. |
| I'm Curious... | Nov 4th. at 5:32:08 pm EST |
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by Suz (Oly) - wc_xemail I have a hard time comprehending how anyone who purports to follow an EARTH-BASED spiritual path can, with good conscience, vote for Bush. To me, that was the single biggest issue, one that affects every living being on this planet, regardless of specie, political party, sexual orientation, religion, intelligence or geographical location. Has anyone else been paying attention? The damage being done to our world today--the one I was taught and believe is the sacred embodiment of divinity--fills me with dread and a great deal of anger. Now, I have read numerous postings on this site on the election outcome and the way people feel about it, and I am really surprised at how few people on a PAGAN website--especially those that chose to vote for Mr. Bush--have not seemed to be overly concerned with his atrocious environmental record and his penchant for only picking science that colludes with his corporate interests. (And, yes, despite his feigned ignorance at the presidential debate, he does own a small share in a timber company.) His policies, appointments and purposeful rejection of world-wide acknowledged scientific findings are a matter of public record-- I have made a point of researching them and recommend everybody do so if they are unsure or don't believe them--so I won't go any further down that road. I guess my point is really just a question to those Pagans that voted for Mr. Bush--how can you reconcile your voting for a man who cares so little for Mother Earth with your practicing an "earth-based" religion? I do not ask this as an embittered voter or to attack, truly--I am just interested and curious. |
| Double Standards From The Tolerant & Enlighten | Nov 4th. at 5:17:14 pm EST |
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by Jennifer (Wisconsin) - wc_xemail It amazes me that the so-called tolerant cannot abide Pagans/Wiccans/Witches that have a decidedly conservative bent. Where and when within the P/W/W theology and/or writings was a codicil inserted to the worship of a liberal political persuasion? Tolerance is the key towards an open-minded approach to faith; yet I am dismayed, not surprised, but dismayed at the postings that reflect a definitive bias and even anger towards us "false" pagans that dare support Bush loudly and proudly. It is a disingenuous and even hypocritical approach for some of you liberal pagans to utilize tolerance as meaning "as long as you are open and accepting to what I believe, that you are tolerant in my eyes, " when the reverse is almost never true. Many of you in the liberal faction of the polytheist mindset openly question how and why could a Pagan be in support of Bush, as if to be a pagan is to be a liberal. You must understand, and I'm afraid many of you that have posted do not, that liberalism and polytheism are not conjoined philosophies. Being a P/W/W does not lock you into political stances and platforms. You must not hijack faith in order to push your political agenda, my dear liberal friends, otherwise you risk being a false believer yourself, motivated by locking into any platform that is not mainstream as a means to securing political power. Politics makes strange bedfellows and I am adverse to any political party, specifically the Democrats, but really anything left of them too, that pander to any and all issues, regardless of how divergent the ideologies may be. This is why I am a conservative. Republicans do not pander to my individual needs; I am allowed under the protections of our CONSTITUTION to express my needs, regardless if my neighbor likes it or not, and it is Republicans, not Democrats, that allow me to be me, even if deep down some conservatives might think me a freak or bound to burn in hell for my personal beleivs on creation and nature, etc. No matter. As long as I can keep more of my money at the end of the year, own a gun if I choose, and continue to support the spread of freedom throughout the world, what a conservative Christian, Muslim or Jew believe on Friday or Sunday or any day of the week about my faith (or lack of it) is irrelevant. But do not dare to question the faith of your fellow pagans, as though you are a devotional barometer, when you base your opinion merely on their CHOICE in political candidates. You are not a god/goddess. |
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