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| Witchvox Chapter: Wren's Nest News | Chapter Page Views: 59,684,712 |
 Haiti Awash In Christian Aid, Evangelism Author: Kari Huus Source: MSNBC Title: HAITI AWASH IN CHRISTIAN AID, EVANGELISM The horrific destruction and human suffering in Haiti exert an almost irresistible pull on U.S. Christian missionaries eager to help. But as the jailing last week of 10 missionaries from a small Baptist church in Idaho illustrates, best intentions don’t always translate into good deeds in the chaotic aftermath of the monster earthquake. Many mission groups provide essential services for Haitians — indeed some have evolved into key service providers, working alongside nonprofit groups and the U.N. to fill gaps that the Haitian government can’t fill. But other missions, even when well-meaning, risk running afoul of Haiti’s culture and laws. “There’s an issue that is coming up a lot right now,” said Laurent Dubois, a professor of history and romance studies at Duke University and an expert on Haiti. “It’s the difference between wanting to help and being able to do good. Most don’t speak any Creole, or have the cultural knowledge. … (As a result) they are going to be very surprised by what they see in Haiti.” | |
| Community Thoughts: There are 25 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Same Old Song & Dance | Feb 11th. at 10:02:17 am EST |
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Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me It is always so refreshing to take a step away from Wren's Nest and then come back to find no one has lost a step in hatred and bashing. I literally could go hang out at a site full of crazy right wing Christians and swap out a few names and it would sound the same as coming here. Do I approve of religious groups using disasters to sell their message or give themselves good PR? No. Am I glad there is more actual aid reaching the needy because of it? Yes. In response to this article there have been people asking how/when we Pagans will get organized so we can go give aid "as Pagans" to the needy in such situations. I'm nto sure how this would be any less reprehensible than other religious groups. After all, if we did it "as Pagans" we would be just as guilty of trying to get good PR out of it. There have been people using this article to try and frame Christians as a criminal enterprise that damage their children. I find this approach endlessly humerous because that is what the crazies on the Christian right say about us. More and more, it becomes apparent to me that the problem isn't with the different religions, it is with the crazies that seem to try and speak for everyone else. |
| Commentary | Feb 11th. at 1:26:24 am EST |
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NOVA (New Brunswick, New Jersey) - Email Me Unfortunately, this is common practice with Missionaries. Even soup kitchens here in the USA won't feed the destitute that come in until AFTER they've sat and listened to the sermon. Sheeezzzz :-\ It's good to know that the Haitian govt issued warnings. There are many so-called religious groups that do despicable things, under the 'cover' of being a church. And these so-called missionaries say we pagans are bad. I say, if you want to help with their physical needs, do so, and then leave the people and their minds and souls alone. |
| Al Capone Was A Good Neighbor | Feb 10th. at 5:23:14 pm EST |
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Terry (Irvington, Virginia) - Email Me It's a Hobson's choice to suggest people in impoverished countries or disaster zones should have to evaluate and make choices between no outside help, and help from dangerous predators with a range of unethical through criminal intent for offering whatever other goods or services. China would summarily arrest evangelical con artists, while Germany has banned Scientology for its deceptive, abusive ongoing practices in the false guise of helping people, though each of those countries has a more advanced economy and greater ability to care for itself. We might recall that historically, Al Capone was considered a good neighbor who acted charitably towards many local kids. That doesn't justify the fact that underlying that charity was a criminal enterprise, intent on far larger predatory criminal acts for power and profit. It's a far from black and white line when some charities are religiously motivated to help others, while many use marginalized people and short term traumatic events to get openings to manipulate in the guise of charity. In Haiti, it's clear that a large percentage of missionaries are there primarily to perpetrate the international law crime of genocide, albeit cultural genocide as defined in law is far messier to enforce than cases under the same law where the perpetrators cause large body counts. Jailed missionaries doing hard time might be a good way to send a needed message that those with criminal intent should go away. It's likely fewer such criminal predators in operation would not seriously reduce charitable services, as most of the support they receive would then likely be redirected to groups that have the training and discipline of staff and volunteers to obey legal boundaries and focus on delivering useful aid. Another aspect of the incident with Idaho Baptists who apparently were too delusional to get it that what they did was wrong, and others like them, is how they develop that disconnect from reality. Under US legal precedent, there's a very fuzzy border of religious and parental rights, versus illegal child abuse, of which those criminal predator Baptists and their parents and churches likely acted on the wrong side. In theory when "permanent and irreparable harm" including that type of religion as a cover for psychiatric disorder results in adults incapable of grasping when actions are criminal, indoctrinating minors in such abusive and delusional world views is itself illegal in the USA. Especially in regions of the USA infested with such psychiatric disorders masquerading as if social norms and common religious sects, some strict enforcement of that often ignored set of legal boundaries could be used to bankrupt corrupt and pathological churches just as SPLC did to a major neo-Nazi hate cult in the same state as these child trafficking criminals. The same legal standards if enforced effectively would also offer baby hatchers who don't get it why and how such patterns are abuse rather than responsible parenting a choice of not hatching any kids, or grow up and dump the sick dogma rather than abuse kids and proliferate the pathology. The compelling government interest in the US in restricting such forms of child abuse that result in mental illness and delusional perceptions of sociology and cultural diversity issues by future adults isn't primarily based on, but only reflected in, the abuses in the name of charity seen in Haiti. Our system of voters and jurors, and that every man be responsible for potentially acting to stop or kill "domestic enemies" when our own government turns corrupt, requires that citizens have an accurate grasp of complex facts, and skills to realistically interpret them. Gawd delusions and compulsions to substitute fantasies for critical thinking are incompatible with those duties and responsibilities of citizenship. They mirror issues of religious rights, wherein it's the right of Americans to belief in and identify with fundamentally pathological or psychotic dogma, but not to act on it in cases where some potential actions are innocuous or beneficial, but others can be criminal towards individuals or involve conspiracies to violate rights of others. That includes when rights of adults to follow sick dogma for themselves would pass down to another generation of kids what are fundamentally broken religions that stunt the development of kids into healthy adults. Why might US media be so unwilling to openly address those issues? Perhaps it's because it's such a massive problem, that it's more profitable for stockholders to market the proliferation of dysfunctional and destructive patterns, than to serve the legal duty of those licensed to use public airwaves, and serve the public interest to change our society into a healthier and more functional populace? |
| Motives Mean All The Difference... | Feb 10th. at 12:44:55 pm EST |
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me I am bashing tactics and the fact that many Fundies who walk into disasters like this are doing it more for their own purposes than they are for any real charity. For every true charity there are many who are seeking people to convert and use the disaster as a lever, and it is not above traffickers or even screwballs to masquerade as charities in order to snag kids for whatever "trade" they are plying- And some Evangels are not really all that trustworthy in their motives either. Those kids that were taken might have been well cared for-- or maybe not. Maybe they were being recruited with promises of food and shelter for slave labor in the group or missionary work later after indoctrination. After all, the way they were taken out was somewhat questionable. Christian aid- isn't the problem if it is doing what it is meant to be doing but I still see it as wrong to be forced to ransom one's soul simply for a crust of bread or a cup of water no matter how dire the need. While Paganism and other alternatives are in a fast growing religion, we are still too new to be very organized enough to still be effective. In time, a coaltion might be formed between well established Pagan groups and covens for a collective Pagan aid for disasters, but for now, christians have the edge. as they have been around a little longer. Better for now to send help through the established secular organizations. |
| Devil Worshippers | Feb 10th. at 11:15:16 am EST |
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Ahr-Ohn (Bridgeport, Connecticut) - Email Me “An estimated 75 percent of Catholics are also increasingly involved in voodoo, spiritism and witchcraft. … The steady growth of Protestant churches in the difficult economic and spiritual climate is cause for praise.” Jesus actually supported the belief in Spirits, and Angels, and The Resurrection, as the Pharicese taught, but regarded them as "Dogs in the Manger, who neither ate, nor allowed others to do so." When you go forth and Prostletize, you're engaging in the very "Devil Worship," prohibited by St. Zoroaster. The Teachings, of the Tanache, or Laws of Moses, say something nasty about missionaires of those Gods your fathers have not known, and the Missionaires of Solomon extended this to having no expectation that others should be taught of Abram, Joseph or Moses, but that they should teach in a more Vedantist Trad, allowing others the Gods their own fathers have known. Christianity is a specific augmentation of the Solomonic Trad, and a Christian who's achieved Rebirth, to be reborn under Heaven, as upon the Earth, is then to attend to the Cast-Offs, Shut-Ins, and to those who suffer as the Christian would rather not, until the Talent is achieved, to extend their hands in the healling of such, and this should be continued until the best medicine is simply to Visit, and then the Christian may attend to Church, where Church comes from the latin Quercus, meaning Oak; Christianity is basically a way to produce Druids for the Tradition of Solomon. All proffessions are essentially Pagan, in nature, but the Vedantist Proffessions don't talk much about the Gods whose ministries they struggle to continue, so you won't hear much more about Solomon, in a School House, than you'd hear about Anubis in a Funeral Home. The problem with launching a Pagan Relief Coallition, is that different Gods would leave trads of different ministries, and something along Unitarian or Masonic Lineage would be needed for Coordination. Just remember that Gospel Verse, not to let your Karma Yoga degrade another's Yama Yoga. I wouldn't object to the Temples of Anubis deploying relief, for the burial trads of the Voodoo, maybe with flying Ice Houses and photographic excavators. Arawn Graalrd |
| I Agree .... | Feb 10th. at 12:38:10 am EST |
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Verikandle (North Vancouver, British Columbia) - Email Me Whatever your problems with Christianity, your eyes would have to be shut to the point of delusion to fail to see the good that's done by many Christian organizations. They build orphanages, run food kitchens, maintain charities, and more. While we might call them out on often behaving hypocritically or on failing to be completely consistent and coherent with their own teachings (or on having exceptionally boring worship services) , we would be mistaken to not recognize their generally prevailing (if sometimes horribly misguided) good intentions. This story came out a while ago, and while clearly these Christians transgressed the law, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume (until it's proved otherwise) that they were doing exactly what they said they were doing. It's ALSO understandable that the Haitian gov't had to stop them- there IS a legitimate fear of child trafficking following a disaster resulting in so many orphans, and the legal processes are there for a reason. But I doubt this group of church-goers had that in mind, and if they had somehow managed to smuggle the kids out and into the States, the kids probably would have been pretty well off. What I don't agree with is the "Fundie" bashing by Pagans in this case- the stakes here for the kid are kind of bigger than "Will I have to go to church every Sunday until I'm 18"- their alternative is trying to get by in an absolutely decimated country filled with thousands of newly homeless people where their more pressing concerns are what they're going to eat that day, whether their friends are still alive, the fact that their parents aren't, or whether their severe injuries are getting infected. I'm kind of guessing they could cope with Sunday School. |
| Look At The Big Picture... | Feb 9th. at 8:34:43 pm EST |
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BlueFeather (Windsor, California) - Email Me Even in a fundie home, those kids would be safe, fed, clothed and educated. The parents GAVE them away in hope they'd have a better life. The have NOTHING to support their children with. Life in the states would still give them a better change at a life. Even if they did have to waste several hours every Sunday morning in church. |
| Judging By The Thier Haste... | Feb 9th. at 12:37:42 pm EST |
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Seleya (Prescott, Arizona) - Email Me ...To get those children out of Haiti, I'm guessing their motives were not all together honorable. They knew it was illegal and they tired it any way. I say they deserve swift and severe punishment by the Haitian government. Xtian's think they have God's blessing to do anything they want as long as they can "claim" it's "God's Work". I think THAT"S the true evil. Seleya |
| National/Internation Wiccan Aid | Feb 9th. at 9:18:26 am EST |
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Marshall (Malone, New York) - Email Me A national/international Wiccan/Pagan aid organization might not be a bad idea, but I see one stumbling block in that there is no central leadership. Each group/coven/hive is separate from every other, more or less. Most other aid groups have a hierarchy leading to a central authority. The absence of this hierarchy would have to be overcome, but if it were, a Wiccan/Pagan organization would have great potential. In the meantime, there are many other aid groups that could use everyone's help - quite a few of which are outside the domain of any one religion or government. The various "Without Borders" groups, most notably Doctors Without Borders. For a good list, go to [Web LINK] . You will have to sift through to find what you want, but I'm sure everyone can find some organization they feel comfortable helping. |
| What Charities Do WE Have? | Feb 9th. at 7:34:21 am EST |
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Badger Breaking Ground (Denton, Texas) - Email Me We don't feel the need to proselytize and we come from all backgrounds. So what are our organizations to help those less fortunate than us? Or are we just a bunch of local groups and, if so, are there larger aid groups that anyone can suggest that our small groups can join with to help? I notice that the closest thing to an International Groups page here are the Global Events/Notices pages. Do we HAVE anything that would make such a page even useful? |
| I Am Glad For The Balance In This Article | Feb 9th. at 5:42:39 am EST |
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Laura C. (Weston, Florida) - Email Me Yes, a lot of missionaries are doing despicable things in the name of their god. But let's face it--Haiti would be even worse off if there were no missionaries at all. It really depends on what they see as their "mission:" feeding the hungry and helping the poor, as Jesus would have done; or converting the masses in any way possible. |
| Believe Our “only True” Dogma And…. | Feb 8th. at 11:17:07 pm EST |
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Karl-777 (Detroit Metro, Michigan) - Email Me - Web ….you’ll be “saved”! The poor and under-educated are perfect targets, are they not? I have no problem with people helping in Haiti. But Xian help is, as has been said, coupled with the inevitable proselytizing and attempts at conversion to which ever of the myriad brands of “only true” sectarian dogma that any particular group is promulgating…..all in exchange for aid, of course. The Xian 10 deserve whatever is coming to them. Their leader, Laura Silsby, was warned by Carlos Castillo, a Dominican Republic Consul General, about what would happen if they did not have the correct papers. For the rest of my thoughts on this, see my blog at: ( [Web LINK] ) ~K |
| Really @&*^%$# Sick Of This Crap | Feb 8th. at 11:13:19 pm EST |
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nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me Hey, if y'all are there to help the Haitians, fine and dandy -- but HELP them, already. Leave your gods-damned religion the hell out of what y'all do when you're supposed to be HELPING them. If they want to adopt or learn your religion, THEY will ask. And for the sake of all the gods, PLEASE, leave the #%& (* (^$@ POLITICS out of it, too. They need food, clean water, clothing, medicine, housing, etc -- all the $^%&&# YOU take as "granted" every day, NOT ^&* (* (^%$# political posturing! Yeah, that goes for the "the media loves Obama, so they won't dare to point fingers at the liberals" crap here, too. IT AIN'T HELPING AT ALL!!!! Y'all know who you are. --nasionnaich |
| ... | Feb 8th. at 11:11:01 pm EST |
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web That's because their favorite targets were always the ones desperate for food. |
| Enough Already! | Feb 8th. at 10:54:55 pm EST |
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Wiyan Wanagi (Fountain Valley, California) - Email Me Make an example of these 10 Missionaries already, so the next batch of "God's Groupies" will think twice before they attempt to circumvent International Law in the name of their religion. The Haitain people - be they Catholic, Vodoun or whatever - just want to have food, shelter and clean water. I never understood the "need" to go "save souls" after a natural disaster ~ it's not helping, it's adding to an already stressful situation by taking a vulnerable people and adding to their trauma. Oh wait! That's their strategy, isn't it? (LOL) ... How about doing some REAL good and sending Psych Trauma teams into the area instead of missionaries next time? |
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