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| Witchvox Chapter: Wren's Nest News | Chapter Page Views: 56,554,744 |
 Tolkien Picks Up A Few More Bits Of Cultural Baggage Author: Chris Mooney Source: The Washington Post Title: TOLKIEN PICKS UP A FEW MORE BITS OF CULTURAL BAGGAGE Early in the new film of Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers," the heroes happen upon a pile of burning carcasses, the smoldering remains of a party of orcs bred by the evil wizard Saruman. These orcs were ambushed and slaughtered by horsemen from the kingdom of Rohan, the heroes' allies in the great war enveloping Tolkien's fantasy world. Despite their military advantage, the riders took no prisoners; in fact, they slew so recklessly that they didn't even notice that the orcs had prisoners of their own. As a memento of their victory, the horsemen left behind an orc head gruesomely spitted on a spear. In the real world, the horsemen's wanton slaughter of the enemy -- no matter how evil -- would probably qualify as a war crime. In its gorily violent film incarnation, however, it is just one episode in a rousing tale of good versus evil. The heroes' sense of mission remains unclouded. For supporters of the war on terrorism and war with Iraq, the relative moral clarity of its narrative is one of the chief attractions of "The Lord of the Rings." | |
| Community Thoughts: There are 20 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Earlier Comment | Dec 30th. at 10:37:26 am EST |
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by Michael Brinkley (Columbia, Missouri) A comment was made earlier that illustrates my frustration with America's desire for war on Iraq. The comment indicated that we are justified in attacking Iraq because of 9/11. The problem with that is that Iraq didn't do that. Iraq hasn't made any aggressive move toward the U.S. in a long time. What I don't understand is why people are Iraq with Mordor and Saddam with Sauron when it is quite obvious that the U.S. is closer to being Mordor than Iraq is. We are the worlds newest evil empire. We want something we go and take it. No one dares stand in our way. Sounds like Sauron to me. |
| Just Shows.... | Dec 29th. at 9:46:37 pm EST |
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by Tarostar (Toronto, Ont.) - wc_xemail .... the many faceted layer of insight good myth-making can produce. I was always struck by the singing of the Ainur/Gods and Goddesses in creating the Universe. It semed to be like the electro-magnetic interplay of forces/vibrations of atoms and molecules, which compose everything; energy being matter and matter being energy, etc. One can find support for any view. That's what makes Tolkien great. |
| Hear, Hear! | Dec 29th. at 7:03:51 pm EST |
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by Cerridwen Moondaisy (Pittsburgh, Pa.) - wc_xemail I agree with Barbara: "But that is what great literature is about. It is about each reader finding their own meaning in a story, and their own interpretation." I think a major reason why the LoTR triology is immensely popular is that the themes *are* applicable to issues we're facing, in our personal lives and on a national/international level. Tolkien's representation of men as susceptible to greed and corruption will always ring true, and the ecological concerns of Tolkien's day have only been amplified in our modern day world with the destruction of the ozone layer and toxified air, water, and soil. (Where *are* our Ents??? I would pay good money for a front row seat to their demolition of the most offensive industries!) Personally, I identify in the sense that I would gladly trade the doom of men for a one-way ticket to the Undying Lands, if only to escape this madness. *sigh* ~Blessed Be~ |
| True | Dec 29th. at 6:59:28 pm EST |
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by Rilluin Stormrider (Carlsbad, CA, USA) You have to keep in context with the story that on top of the fact that, as another poster mentioned, orcs would not make good POWs, if you read the other books about Middle-Earth by Tolkien as well as LOTR, the only people that take prisoners are the bad guys and that is to torture, interrogate, etc. You could easily assume that due to this, there are cultural connotations in Middle-Earth about taking prisoners. The Rohirrim probably did not take those prisoners because of that possible connotation. |
| Folks Must Be Reading..... | Dec 29th. at 4:03:12 pm EST |
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by Barbara (Ohio) ....a different article than the one I read. Or they only read the first paragraph, and get all het up and fired off a reply. Basically, from what I read, was the author not only was commenting on the films, but also the books, which he has obviously read a few more times than I have. And he was commenting on how each generation of readers, and now viewers, brings thier interpretation and current cultural situation to the books, adding yet another layer of meaning that Tolkein probably did not intend. But that is what great literature is about. It is about each reader finding thier own meaning in a story, and their own interpretation. A text that cannot be interpreted is not a good one. But the author cautions us not to read too deeply into Tolkein's work, without understanding the author's intent. Having taken way too many literature classes with professors who seem hell-bent to ignore author's intentions in thier interpretations, I think these cautions should be heeded. Be that as it may, I don't really see a lot to harp on in the piece. It was well written, and made sense to me. |
| No Title | Dec 29th. at 2:39:37 pm EST |
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by Awen DarkAngel (Nevada) Ok, I read this article twice just so I wouldn't miss anything. I just wonder, I saw the two towers yesterday,for the second time, and I did not hear one person compare it to what is going on in the real world. And the same thing with the first movie. NO ONE compared it to the world events, it was and still is simply just a movie, a fantasy movie from a series of books most of us read as kids/teenagers. To date the author of this article is the only one I see doing any type of comparision. I simply think he had nothing to write about and this would get some interest because of the popularity of the movies and the popularity of world events...Of course then again I could be wrong, after all I thought it was simply a "fantasy" movie... |
| Hmmm | Dec 29th. at 2:12:17 pm EST |
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by DrgnDancer (New Orleans) I often wonder, does anybody actually read the whole article before commenting? I often think not. The author of the article has clearly read the books, and understands them, and Tolkien, well. His point is that we should be very careful in assigning meaning to Tolkien's work. Tolkien himself was found of saying that he hated alegory. If you read the _whole_ article instead of just the sysnopsis or the first couple of paragraphs, you might be immpressed. |
| Archetypal Myth | Dec 29th. at 2:09:49 pm EST |
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by Wild_Huntsman (Toronto, Ontario) The author makes an excellent point. There are all sorts of pundits out there who are using the Lord of the Rings as an analogy for whatever is going on. This is a crucial mistake that people have been making since it was first published. J.R.R. Tolkien, himself, said many times that this is not an analogy to anything. It is what a modern english myth would look like, if there were such a thing. Tolkein studied and taught mythology and old languages. He knew that England didn't -- doesn't -- have any mythology of its own. Beowulf comes close, but it is imported from the Baltic by the Saxon invaders. The Celtic tales are 'native' but the celtic cultures survive only to the west and north, in Cornwall, Wales, and Scotland. The Arthurian legends are definitely not english, but scholars disagree where they came from - France, Wales, Brittany, or even further east. What he understood, what any intelligent person who reads the Ring cycle understands, is that myths are not analogies, they are archetypes. In the myth, there is clearly defined good and evil and absolute victories and very little moral questions. The reason they resonate with so much of the daily world is because they are true, but not real. They never happened. Because myths resonate with a deeper truth, an underlying truth that can be seen in every situation, everything that does happen is an echo of the events in those myths. So everyone can see something of their own desires and current situation mirrored in the tale. The administration sees themselves as heroes, fighting against the dark power of Al Quaeda. The environmentalists see the industrialists in the administration as agents of Sauron. Mooney is right, however, we must always remember that Iraqis, and arabs in general, despite having dark skins, are neither orcs, nor easterlings. And where we would like to see ourselves as being on the side of light, we are the 'men' who are weak enough to fall under the spell of power. |
| Have To Admit... | Dec 29th. at 1:19:40 pm EST |
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by Silver Fox (Wa) I admit, I also clicked on the link due to mention of Tolkien and LOTRs. I don't agree either with the use of Nukes on Iraq. But something has to be done, instead of our politicians pussy footing around, showing other countries that they can push, poke, prod, goad us, ect and we won't do anything. I am for a show of don't mess with us. If 9/11 wasn't a clear cut provaction of war on the U.S., I don't know what is. Or for that matter, don't forget they tried to hit the Pentagon that day as well. Personally, myself, before 9/11. I could have cared less about who Osama Binladen was. Just another poor little man from the middle east who has to point a finger at the U.S. as a focuse for all his small minded hatred and bitterness. But hey buddy, you want war. I say we give it to him if he's going to provoke it. We can talk on forever about the Gods, peace, love and happiness. I frankly think it's foolishness to just stand there and take it while the bully is hitting us in the face. And if it is such extreme cultural and political differences between the U.S. and Middle East that it is like the Orcs in LOTRs, only one of us can remain standing in the end. Especially as long as men like Osama and Sadam are going to find ways to power and use it. |
| I Agree... | Dec 29th. at 1:00:37 pm EST |
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by MoorDragon (Atlanta) ...with the statements made about how LOTR has nothing to do with the real world. Harry Potter, LOTR, Star Wars, Barney...it's all fantasy story telling. Jeez, what's with all the socialogical analysis? Maybe these reporters have nothing else better to write about or they just want someone to read their articles so they pick on whatever is hugely popular at the moment. I'm on a discussion group now where some people are claiming LOTR is just racist propoganda! Give me a break! The problem with alot of people out there is that they are taking science fiction and fantasy WAYYYYYYYYYY too seriously and not enjoying it for what it is. )O( |
| Is It That Hard To Understand A Book? | Dec 29th. at 12:33:48 pm EST |
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by Peaches (Littleton, Colorado) - wc_xemail Tolkien was around to see fighting in his time too and many believe that that is the reason war is such a huge focus in his books. He may have wanted people to see what wars really do. In this day in age there may not be a stand down between us and Iraq. For all we know neither country will be left standing especially if our dear president decides he wants to just nuc them. This guy obviously didn't read the books and just watched the movies or he would see that the movies don't exactly follow Tolkien's books. Tolkien's messages do not appear on screen they appear only when you take the time to read his stories which to most may appear to have secret messages about life in them. |
| Military Advantage? | Dec 29th. at 12:19:44 pm EST |
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by Lokari (Chicago, IL) Grr. Hit a wrong key and post an incomplete message. Ah well, as I was going to say... In the portions of the article quoted above, the writer states "Despite their military advantage, the riders took no prisoners". Sheer foolishness, and it shows that while the writer may have seen the movie, he understood nothing of the *fantasy* world that Tolkien created. There would be no military advantage in taking orcs prisoner. Orcs were bred to have a complete disregard for life, including their own. You couldn't hold them as prisoners of war or barter with the enemy for them. And the war in question wasn't going to end with both sides standing - one way or another it was going to be *complete*. Clearly the author of the article is just riding on the popularity of LOTR to get published, as another poster very correctly noted. Certainly, trying to draw such spurious parallels is an absurd effort. |
| Rolling Eyes | Dec 29th. at 12:13:20 pm EST |
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by Jo (CO) Maybe what Tolkien was really trying to show is how terrible war really is. Besides, this guy forgets that there used to be poeple who really did cut off the heads of their enemies and hang them from the castle wall. I think the thing we need to remember, though, is that this isn't a real life tale. It is a fantasy that was brought to the world before I was born, and is now a movie that is fun to watch. I think the best part is when the Ents attack. I could hear a voice yelling: BE KIND TO THE EARTH OR SHE WILL TAKE YOU OUT! This just goes to prove that everyone finds their own meaning in a story. |
| Military Advantage? | Dec 29th. at 12:12:26 pm EST |
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by Lokari (Chicago, IL) Despite their military advantage, the riders took no prisoners; |
| Let's Not Get Fantasy Mixed Up With Reality | Dec 29th. at 12:11:15 pm EST |
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by DolphinSmile (Austin, TX) There are lots of fictional stories where the good guys are pure good and the bad guys are pure evil. They're just stories. Orcs really are pure evil, and you know what else, they aren't real! Iraqis and North Koreans aren't orcs, they're real human beings. I don't find it easy to confuse the two at all. |
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